Earlier quoted context omitted.
I came from a rich family. My parents let me flounder on my own in college. Never gave me a dime and I had earn everything I ever had. When I was 25 and my GF got pregnant, my parents said, “Well, you’re a responsible adult, you’ll figure it out.” For me? There was no safety net. A year on food stamps, paying child support, working three jobs and being clinically depressed was me “figuring it out.” At no time did the…
Sad to say, you have assholes for parents. Sure, I can see them reasonably thinking that making you support yourself in college was a fine idea. But providing no support that would benefit their own infant grandchild? No.
The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
101–110 of 182 posts
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
No one raises and kills cows for the leather; the leather is a byproduct.
The leather is a product, not a byproduct, just not the sole product. I fail to see the logic that killing a mink for its fur is wrong, but killing a cow is okay because we get meat along with the leather. You can also make arguments about how it’s okay because cows are raised specifically to be killed, but the fact remains that we kill orders of magnitude more cows than we ever have minks. My previous argument stand…
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#103The problem is that Yale exists at all
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather. This is a strange example of inconsequential protest, as the movement against furs was highly successful.
You’re kind of illustrating GP’s point. Throwing paint on a fashionista wearing fur poses very little risk- compare the risk to a Hell’s Angels biker who might literally kill you. And furs were always expensive which kept the quantity relatively low- compare the number of fur animals killed to the number that are killed for their hides to make car interiors, house furniture, clothing, and more. If the fur protesters…
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#105The articles contends the rich kids at Yale pretend to be poor to shirk the elite responsibilities, which then leads to deterioration of the elites. I find it doubtful that the kids have thought it through that far. A couple of more likely explanations come to mind: - Rebellious teenagers always want to establish independence from their parents. Giving up part of the money takes you part of the way there. - It's hard…
"Rebellious teenagers always want to establish independence from their parents" The rebelliousness of college students seems so obvious to me. Everyone here using youthful behavior (almost all in their teens and early twenties) to bash their favorite bogeyman group (usually composed of much older people) is missing the completely obvious.
What do you mean?
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
> 4. Interprets the battles in 3 as at best insignificant and at worst a distraction from real problems of class disparity in America. Contrasts these protests against Vietnam protests. I tend to agree. I view the "tempest in a teapot" protests that go after some academic functionary in the same light as I view most of the animal rights protesters--deeply hypocritical. You don't see these college students go after so…
> You don't see these college students go after someone with actual power just like you don't see the animal rights advocates throw paint on Hell's Angels for wearing leather. This is a strange example of inconsequential protest, as the movement against furs was highly successful.
What would the critics have said, if they had done just that?
Probably something among the lines of: ”see, this proofs they are unreasonable lunatics! Nobody in their right mind would protest against the Hells Angels. How does that even further thwir goals? They should go against $TARGET”
The key to understanding a lot of criticism is that it happens often in defense of the critics sense of superiority and is therefore not necessarily an rational argument against a certain movement, but a justifiction from the critics why they aren’t part of it. And the answer equates usually roughly: ”because they don’t go far enough, are not brave enough, not clever enough, not efficient enough, not radical enough, not consequent enough, taking on the wrong target, ...”
The interesting aspect: this kind of criticism rarely brings to light any valid argument against the underlying motivations of the movement. So as an example you rarely see critics go: “The idea that we shouldn’t wear fur is wrong - we totally should for the following reasons ...” ¹
This makes clear that the critics realize they can’t make a moral argument here — yet they want to maintain a feeling of superiority over those who question the status quo and so they aim for the character of those they criticize.
Critic: ”If only I were part of that movement, I would protest even more than they do, by going for the dangerous Hells Angels.”
B: ”Yeah but you aren’t. As it stands now you do less than those who you criticise for not doing enough — what does that make you?”
Critic: ”I am still better than them because ...”
If I ever feel I need to criticise a movement for not doing enough, I stop and think about what I am in the process of doing and whether I am really in the position to phrase that criticism.
--- ¹: Usual arguments like “We always did it like that and it was no problem” just proof the critic didn’t really think about the topic.
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
The game was and has never been fair. The parent is merely arguing that you should blame the game, and not the players.
You can blame the players for not helping other players, and not wanting infrastructure that takes excess resources from the winners to help all players.
That's called entitlement. They have no duty to share their wealth beyond what they choose which as most people, is their family.
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can blame the players for not helping other players, and not wanting infrastructure that takes excess resources from the winners to help all players.
> You can blame the players for not helping other players Assume we did, what is the correct amount of help that the successful players should help the unsuccessful ones? Unless it's codified into the game itself (being made to pay more taxes based on wealth for example), it's unfair to expect arbitrary players to pay some undefined price to the satisfaction of another arbitrary set of players.
It's completely appropriate and reasonable to answer that question with: I don't know exactly how much, but certainly a lot more than is currently occurring, so let's {double, quadruple, 10x} the current levels and then re-assess.
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#109I think the author is ascribing too much intent to a simple economy of shame that’s omnipresent in all classes; if people find out you have more than they do, they hate you. The author herself appears to be biased by this. She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic that suggests that because they have more, they necessaril…
> She believes that the “rich elites” have a great burden of responsibility towards the world, which she justifies with shaky zero sum logic... " Noblesse oblige "? " With great power comes great responsibility "†? " To whom much has been given, much is expected "? The belief that the wealthy and powerful have a duty to use that power to improve the welfare of the society in which they live has been around for a long…
"Eigentum verpflichtet. Sein Gebrauch soll zugleich dem Wohle der Allgemeinheit dienen."
That's article 14 paragraph 2 of the German Grundgesetz (Basic Law ~ Constitution). Translated: "Property entails obligations. Its use shall also serve the public good."
Re: The Problem at Yale Is Not Free Speech
#110Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, by that logic, it should always have been this way. And yet, conspicuous consumption by the children of the ruling class, is not an historically unusual event. Pretending you're poor when you're very rich, while perhaps not unprecedented, is at least not the norm. So I think an explanation is called for, and hers is at the very least quite plausible. Whatever the reason, it would have to be something that is no…
>Pretending you're poor when you're very rich, while perhaps not unprecedented, is at least not the norm. So I think an explanation is called for, and hers is at the very least quite plausible Here's mine: social media and culture in general seeming to centralize around the internet places rich people in the same cultural environment as their poorer counterparts at a scale that is historically unprecedented. The elit…