Without caste/corruption India will disintegrate like USSR in no time.
I Paid a Bribe
101–109 of 109 posts
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeap. The current state of affairs is no secret to anybody. The problem is a complete lack of realistic solutions. We won't get out in the streets. We're not hungry enough, and we don't have a culture of protesting. We pretty much think the French are uncivilized when they burn cars in the street - civilized peoples solve their problems otherwise. But how? It's be easier if the press was somehow keeping silent, but t…
The movie had an interview with a Jerry Springer style talk show host guy, and his take on it was that most of the people who took to the streets during the revolution left the country when they realised that in the new capitalism would be owned by the old ex-Securitate(sp?) types. The people who were left were the fearful keep-your-head-down types that watched everything on tv, the people from the countryside who wo…
Neh, not so many people left. Plus it's been 20 years already, that's a full generation. I was 10 when it happened. Plenty of time to replace them.
It's just that protesting wouldn't do any good. Say the current government falls... what do you replace it with? We tried it. We actually had something which looked like a "turning the tide" a few years ago. We voted in a completely new regime (including a new president), much preferred by the younger people, including myself. It started great... In the first 3 weeks they lowered and standardized taxes, and put a minister of justice straight from the NGOs. Dream come true. About a year later, the opposition got together, broke off a piece from the current government, and together tried to (rather illegally ) impeach the president with no good reason.
(you think you guess the rest of the story? guess again). The president managed to force a referendum on the issue, and proved he had the overwhelming support of the population. The impeachment failed. The parliamentary majority belonged to the opposition now, but somehow the good guys managed to name their own Prime Minister, and so in effect hold most of the power.
Fast forward to present time. The NGO Justice Minister is long gone, taxes are at a record high, the president is unanimously vilified, and his party is doing the hiring in every public institution and a few private companies as well. Plus they turned out to be much more incompetent then the previous guys.
There are no heroes in politics here.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.
You left out the people with no kidneys and no money. They are the reason people frown on selling organs. (That, and the question of whether all the donors would actually be voluntary.)
Some people think it's sad, I think it's natural selection.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
Actually I'm in favour of a free market for kidneys. Some folks have two kidneys and need money. Some folks have no kidneys and plenty of money. We shouldn't forbid them from figuring this one out.
I could possibly obtain many kidneys, in return for plenty of money. In fact, I believe this is the whole point of not having a free market for body parts.
What? That some folks might start buying 'em (very expensively, the transplant surgery alone is tens of thousands) to throw away just for shits and giggles? I'd say that's the least problem with a free market for kidneys.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can see it however you like, however you're completely missing the point. If you pay 100 bucks to a teacher to look the other way while you're living on ramen and have 300 bucks in your savings account, while your professor has say 20k in his checking account and property to his name, who's wealthier or upper class? The point I was making is that trading money for favors is not some exclusive power only the wealt…
How would you rate the relative proportions of same-class bribery such as that and 'downwards' bribery?
Ahhh that's a whole different enchilada! If you told me that bribery in which money changes hands generally has a higher incidence when the briber is significantly wealthier than the bribee and can provide a monetary amount worth while for the party accepting the bribe, I would definitely have to agree with you.
A valet parking employee might get 'bribes' from different people to fetch their car first in the queue, such people might be DHH waiting for his custom Zonda HH (and giving the valet a 50), me waiting for my 335i (and giving the valet a 10 dollar bill), or the dude next to me that earns as much as the valet waiting for his Corolla (giving the valet a 5 dollar bill). The catch is that to bribe people with money, you need to have money to 'throw away' so to speak. Any one with sufficient disposable income can bribe a valet, and most that can actually do in some way or another, but how do the car and money less bribe a valet and why should they since they don't have a car anyways?
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's easy to think that everyone accepting (or even demanding) bribes just decided one day that they wanted to be evil. In reality, they may very well have been pressured into it by their environment, or from fears that their peers will rat them out if they aren't participating. I'm not saying they'd be right or should be pitied, but it'd certainly be possible for them to be shamed.
It is a systemic problem. Let me give an example where reasonable number of people will laugh at you if you don't bribe your way out of a harmless situation. Road infrastructure is sorely lacking in India which results in crowded streets. A huge percentage of drivers violate traffic laws everyday to gain even the slightest advantage over fellow roadsters. If the person gets pulled over, what is the best thing to do i…
Well said. Corruption in India is indeed a systemic problem. While there is no denying that the system of governance is corrupt, it is also true that citizens are ready to bribe as long as their work gets done.
It is in this context that IPAB believes in a systemic approach to tackling corruption. We do not target individuals as they are dispensable and replaceable. It is the system and processes which need to be changed. Alongside focusing on procedural change in the government we also focus on greater knowledge and understanding on the part of the citizen. We work on the belief that citizens who are well-informed of their rights wrt govt services are less likely to indulge in paying a bribe.
To this end, on our site we provide Citizen Charters which are documents of service timelines published by the government. Armed with this document, citizens are better enabled to stand up against corruption. On the govt-facing end of our campaign, we have come out with Janamahiti report for the Transport Department of Bangalore which analyses bribe reports received on our site, pinpoints the most corrupt processes and puts forward suggestions to tackle corruption rampant in this department. We are also briefing the Transport department this week on the Janamahiti and the recommendations it provides.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#107This is an interesting idea, but it needs some cachet to catch on. Don't get me wrong: India _needs_ this site, and needs it badly. Corruption and graft have become so bad that everyone from the top-most office down to the lowest level refuses to even lift a finger without getting his palm greased. Things have become so bad that officials are willing to cause a loss of billions of dollars to the taxpayer just to make…
Ajays, we beg to differ. IPaidABribe believes that corruption in India is systemic and only procedural change can make a difference. Merely booking corrupt individuals is a band-aid solution to a deep-rooted problem as they can easily be replaced by another corrupt officer. Instead, if there is a transparent and accountable system of governance in place it would naturally reduce the degree of discretion which officials enjoy today in India. This, we believe, would help build a corruption-free India.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#108Took me far too long to find the "view stories" link: http://www.ipaidabribe.com/sforms/view_reports_paid It'd be great to have these on a map. I want to see where bribes are most common(ly reported) Though, I suppose this site is so focused on Bangalore, it may not be much use.
Your feedback on navigation is appreciated. We will definitely include it in our next website redesign.
Not sure what you mean by map but there is a section called Corruption Commons which does give a map wrt bribes: http://ipaidabribe.com/sforms/corruption_commons We also have a graphical representation of bribes called Bribe Patterns on the homepage. Do take a look and feel free to get back to us with feedback. It's much appreciated.
Though it is true that IPAB is based out of Bangalore, we are a pan-India initiative. Our data being crowdsourced, it is just a matter of coincidence that we receive a large portion of our reports from Bangalore. Having said that our graphical Bribe Patterns will show you that Chennai, Mumbai, Pune, Hyderabad and Delhi also figure prominently in our data.
Re: I Paid a Bribe
#109Though it is a good initiative, it is not effective yet. In the site the stories are not associated with the name and also there are no proofs. So in a way all the reports are toned down to just say that I had to pay a bribe but not who is taking the bribe. If it has that detail, then that official will be shamed and there is a possibility that corruption can be reduced faster. But the site's aim is to gauge the amou…
We have got a lot of similar feedback. However, after a great deal of thought we have decided not to give names of people, for the following reasons:
(a) We are not a prosecuting agency on behalf of citizens. They can also directly go to regulatory and vigilance authorities such as the Lokayukta and Central Vigilance Commission. (b) It distracts us from the main task of putting pressure on the government for systemic improvement (c) We do not want to open the floodgates of claims and counterclaims. We want the website to retain its focus on being a positive mover in the larger endeavour of eliminating corruption. (d) Elimination of corruption is better achieved by simplification of systems, transparency and other similar reforms. By targeting corrupt people without tackling such changes, we cannot achieve much.