Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 178 posts

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#101

Post by microcolonel »

geofft wrote: post #72
b_tterc_p wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is getting downvoted but it’s an important sentiment. You can argue that America and China are equally bad (I disagree), but regardless, you can’t really argue that America and China are equally bad to Americans.

So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole. I think we should do what's best for the world, not what's best for Americans, if those two are in conflict. I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world, and I think it has little enough value to Americans that I'm willing to abandon it. (I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of t…

> So, I am an American, but my primary loyalty is to humanity as a whole.

Being able to say that sort of thing with a straight face is the tremendous privilege of being an American.

> I don't think promoting the American intelligence apparatus is good for the world

In a vacuum I would not promote them, but in a counterintelligence scenario, I side with U.S. and Canadian intelligence services over the PLA, 100%. The thing I try not to do is believe the CIA when they say somebody is committing an act of war against the U.S, because their track record on that is not great. ;- )

> (I think you can construct an argument that America treats the rest of the world better than China, though. I don't think I believe it right now but I could be convinced.)

Well, look into it. I don't think you can compare the callousness and limitless self-interest of the CCP (and the culture of the people they empower) abroad to even the greatest excesses of modern U.S. foreign policy. China is ruthlessly raping the developed world of its natural resources, and leaving superfund sites in its wake, and nobody is tempering that; some because they're afraid, others because they simply never cared.

When the U.S. has an interest abroad, at least Americans feel they have a right and duty to keep tabs on it. That is a huge step up from most of the world. That doesn't mean that American businesses and U.S. government organizations don't do bad things abroad, but it does mean that ordinary Americans can say and do something about it.

There's a false dichotomy here between trusting U.S. intelligence services, and trusting the PLA. If you don't trust either, you may still be surveilled by U.S. intelligence services in America; if you "equally distrust both", you will be surveilled by both, in America.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#102

Post by the-dude »

geofft wrote: post #52
_dczq wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had to go back 12 years for your example. I think that speaks pretty loudly to the differences between countries.

Correct, it's been twelve years. Nacchio was the most recent person stupid enough to say no to the US government. They made an example of him. In recent years, US telecom CEOs know they should quietly say yes, and not put up a fight.

Hmmm, didn't Apple through Tim Cook resist the US government regarding the unlocking of iPhone's?

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#104

Post by baq »

geofft wrote: post #99
pciexpgpu wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is regurgitating stats and numbers without much context. I feel that over-priveleged peoples in the West with a really good life and pretty much every comfort available, often tend to just look at these superficial charts and numbers and tend to gloss over the context in these other countries. It's pretty sad really that you are comparing China to the USA in this way just by mentioning that the USA is a…

So - as an overprivileged person in the West, I believe I am happier living in the US than in China. There are a lot of freedoms and comforts available to me as an upper-middle-class person. Were I not, I suspect I'd be happier in China. And there's no shortage of e.g. college students from China who want to return after their studies instead of trying to stay around America and get a work visa. They're smart, and th…

20 years of indoctrination, obvious and covert, tends to produce a very strong national identity. This coupled with a sufficiently different culture at home makes one unwilling to settle in a country full of strangers worshipping money and freedom of individuals. They come to the US to learn from the best and replicate what works back home for the country.

Of course, there are those that don’t. That’s beside the point, there always are.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#105

Post by fornine »

geofft wrote: post #55
rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes, I do. Here's a few reasons: - I genuinely think that the Huawei stories are by and large protectionist fearmongering and that Huawei products would win in a free and high-information (and high-correct-information, of course) market. I think better, cheaper products are good for the US. - If Huawei is actually using their products to spy, or there is even a belief of such, that incentivizes the use of end-to-end…

You don’t think an authoritarian regime that claims human rights are “Western rights” and denies most aspects of classical liberalism is worse than the US?

No man is wrong except the man who says he’s right...

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#106

Post by natch »

redwood wrote: post #90
rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

I'll say this: my gut says "no" BUT if the US uses Huawei as much as China uses Cisco et al then there is one very good thing that can happen--economic interdendence which tends to encourage peace! The key is for balance and competitiveness on both sides to be maintained. China backs its companies with government support more aggressively than the US does (in recent decades anyway) which means the US could lose its e…

That would be fine in an ideal world where both sides have good faith, but in our real world China is doing everything it can to ratchet into dominance rather than mutual reliance.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#107

Post by Barrin92 »

microcolonel wrote: post #95
Barrin92 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's true though, paradoxically if you're an American subject to Chinese surveillance or vice versa you're probably better off than being under domestic surveillance, because at least you're out of the respective jurisdiction. Like, what is Huawei going to do if it has information on you and you live in Boston, compared to the local police? From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be…

> From the perspective of individual liberty it seems better to be subject to surveillance by someone who doesn't have legal authority over you than be subject to someone who does. Well, this idea is false. The CCP has power in the U.S. over people they surveil, through the information gained with that surveillance. It doesn't take much to compromise ordinary people, if you can watch a lot of what they do. > I'm not…

Since when is the Chinese government in the business of compromising ordinary Americans? It's a daily occurence for marginalised people in the US to get arrested for minor drug offences, or be stuck in airport security or police checks, or more and more relevant facial recognition systems.

What the average American does not need to worry about is the Chinese coming after him because he smoked pot on the weekend. The primary threat to American civil liberties is their own government, not distant foreign ones.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#108

Post by baq »

geofft wrote: post #46
darawk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the big difference is that US companies can meaningfully resist the US government if they choose to, and they often do. Chinese companies cannot.

The way that Qwest CEO Joseph Nacchio so meaningfully resisted the government that he was convicted of insider trading for telling people his company would be successful when it actually relied on a government contract that was pulled in retaliation, which he couldn't use as a defense in court because of national security concerns? For which he served four years in prison, and Qwest no longer exists? That sort of mea…

He’d get a bullet in China.

Re: Huawei staff CVs reveal alleged links to Chinese intelligence agencies

#109

Post by chvid »

rdlecler1 wrote: post #49

A lot of people in this thread are complaining that the US does this to but does anyone seriously believe that having Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure is a good idea?

Yes. It is a good idea to have Huawei tech embedded in American infrastructure.

First. The allegations against Huawei are BS driven by internal US politics.

Secondly where does this weird nationalism lead us? To a world where there is no Chinese router or chipset in American infrastructure. And by extension no American router or chipset in Chinese infrastructure.

That is a world which is a lot poorer and filled with unconstructive paranoia.

Post reply on HN