Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 222 posts

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#101

Post by dontbenebby »

nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

> also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport.

But as a practical matter they can detain you and do a more intense search than they would if you didn't dig your heels in and silently hand them your passport. You'd be surprised how intrusive a search absent reasonable suspicion can be at the border - they just don't have the resources to do one on everyone.

The info I've been asked for at the border is usually info the government could get if it wanted (Ex: asking where I visited when they have flight records and are looking at my passport stamps)

I'm fine with doing a little participatory security theater if it gets me home quicker and has no real cost to me.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#102

Post by jandrese »

cardiffspaceman wrote: post #65
mehrdadn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You find it normal to carry around passports for domestic travel? How often do you travel?

The passport is a physically-robust booklet, while the drivers license is a comparatively fragile card. I can put the printed boarding pass in the passport, so it's easy to present to the TSA agent. As to how often I travel, I barely got to 10 nights on my highest-status hotel loyalty program, so I guess that means I travel some, but not lots.

Do you break your Driver's License frequently? Mine is a tough laminated card. I've never had a situation where I thought it was going to be damaged.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#103

Post by dontbenebby »

cobythedog wrote: post #68
sneak wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did this every time I re-entered the US for several years. After a few times, they took to arresting me for 4-10 hours on EVERY ENTRY, sending busses without me, making me miss connecting flights, et c. One time I was locked in a room without food, water, or medication for 12 hours. (FWIW, I'm white, a US citizen, employed, and wealthy-by-most-standards-but-not-by-HNs.) They'd sometimes simply intimidate me, someti…

What does it mean to be "digitally penetrated"? I'm not familiar with that.

In English digit comes from the latin word for finger (digitus)

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#104

Post by jahewson »

existencebox wrote: post #7

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

I think the article is wrong about this. The linked EFF post mentions nothing about passports and the TSA currently accepts a wide range of ID documents for domestic flights:

https://www.tsa.gov/travel/security-screening/identification

Which makes sense because if you're opting out of the new automated process then you just go back to the manual process - somebody looking at your documents. Those document requirements have not changed.

In 2020 when REAL ID comes into effect then you'll need a special ID (typically a new drivers license), or failing that, a passport - but that's a separate issue.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#105

Post by dontbenebby »

filoleg wrote: post #72
khuey wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they actually using this on domestic flights? I know the article mentions flying domestically but I haven't seen any evidence that this is being used for non-international flights. The whole point of this is to implement the Congressional mandate for exit tracking without the more traditional exit controls of getting your passport checked and stamped upon exit (which most countries do).

I thought so too, so your comment prompted me to look it up. Seems like the enforcement of this requirement will begin on October 1st 2020.[1] [1] https://www.dhs.gov/news/2019/04/04/tsa-reminds-travelers-re...

If your state doesn't have a compatible DL it may be worth it to get a passport card.

(I like them because they don't have an address on them. Less info leaking every time I buy a beer)

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#106

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

sneak wrote: post #53
afpx wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like hyperbole to me. Remember, we live in a republican democracy. Yes, it works slowly (by design). But, it works. At least we don’t have a totalitarian state to deal with. I used to be skeptical of this stuff, too. Then, we had 18 years of no major terrorist attacks.

How do we not have a totalitarian state? You can't publish evidence of state war crimes without the CIA doing a character assassination job on you (pending a real assassination). You can't travel anonymously. You can't publish anonymously. You can't make bank transfers out of the country for arbitrary purposes. You can't deposit or withdraw cash above a trivial amount without significant scrutiny which is reported to…

> It's illegal to not let the state know where you habitually sleep (state ID/driver's license requirements).

Today I learned the government expects me to sleep in my PO Box.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#107

Post by chrisseaton »

cblades wrote: post #90
chrisseaton wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t that risky - what if you suddenly have to travel with business and there’s a delay getting a passport?

This is a sincere question: what's your background that you have such a skewed perspective of US travel tendencies?

In the UK almost everyone gets a passport as a baby and never lets it lapse for the rest of their lives. Seems like a basic bit of freedom to have.

I assumed Americans would want the same kind of basic freedom to move between countries?

You'd get a really funny look if you were suddenly asked to go on a business trip to the US and you said you didn't have a passport yet. Not sure why it wouldn't be the same if you were in the US and asked to go on a business trip to the UK.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#108

Post by jandrese »

chrisseaton wrote: post #13
existencebox wrote: post #7

Am I the only one spooked by the fact that to opt out, you now need to have your passport with you? (and for _domestic travel_ no less) Given that the facial databases contain your data regardless, and the amount of in-airport surveillance (in that you're not gonna avoid being observed and logged), It's more of a, "we're gonna make you present your papers regardless, pick your poison"

Isn’t a passport just a basic photo ID? Seems reasonable to ask for on to check people are who they say they are. Everyone already has a passport.

US Passports are not especially cheap and expire after 10 years, so if you have no international travel plans it doesn't make sense to get one.

I recently got some for my kids for an upcoming trip and it required me to take time off of work to visit the Post Office during a narrow window when the passport clerk is there, whom we had to pay for her services, to then mail off each passport application individually along with original birth certificates and another check to get the passports a couple of months later. Both parents had to be at the post office to process the application. It's a pretty awful process.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#109

Post by docker_up »

nimbius wrote: post #11

also worth noting: as a US citizen re-entering the country you do not have to present anything more to a customs agent than your passport. You are not required to answer any questions at all. Where youre from, where you were, what you did, nothing, however it may result in an inspection of your bags, so it depends on whether your interpretation of liberty is based on personal convenience. Disclosure: ive done this op…

I understand the need to exercise freedom, and I do this when in line for TSA. I opt for hand-screening usually.

But I don't see what the point is in not answering where you visited. I'm pretty sure they already have this information so there's no point in hiding it, in my opinion. Plane tickets, hotel bookings, credit card usage, etc all will tell an easy tale as to where you were and what you did.

Re: Americans can opt out of airport facial recognition

#110

Post by dontbenebby »

tedivm wrote: post #60
holy_city wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm surprised they didn't require full fingerprints for REAL ID. They do in California!

California has required a thumb print for a drivers license since 1982.

Even if porting in your DL from another state?

Wouldn't that violate the driver's license compact? (IANAL)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_License_Compact#States_...

Post reply on HN