Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 299 posts

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#101

Post by ekiru »

sonnyblarney wrote: post #88
tptacek wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a formal presentation at a CERN workshop that invokes "Cultural Marxism". CERN had to apologize for the presentation after the workshop. Of course they're pissed.

They had to apologize because some people were going to be offended, surely, it doesn't mean the presentation is intellectually offensive. 'PR' is different than 'Science'. 'Cultural Marxism' is just a popular term for Intersectionalism, and it's a real issue, particularly on campus. People should be able to talk about issues that are a little bit uncomfortable.

'Cultural Marxism' is an overtly antisemitic conspiracy theory claiming a devious plot by certain Jewish academics a plot to subvert "western civilization" and attributing their influence as the cause of myriad social and political stances/events/developments that the advocates of this conspiracy theory disapprove of.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#102

Post by tptacek »

ekiru wrote: post #101
sonnyblarney wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They had to apologize because some people were going to be offended, surely, it doesn't mean the presentation is intellectually offensive. 'PR' is different than 'Science'. 'Cultural Marxism' is just a popular term for Intersectionalism, and it's a real issue, particularly on campus. People should be able to talk about issues that are a little bit uncomfortable.

'Cultural Marxism' is an overtly antisemitic conspiracy theory claiming a devious plot by certain Jewish academics a plot to subvert "western civilization" and attributing their influence as the cause of myriad social and political stances/events/developments that the advocates of this conspiracy theory disapprove of.

Even if you don't believe this (I think Jordan Peterson, who is fond of it, is a charlatan but not at all an anti-Semite), the term obviously occludes more than it clarifies, and was deliberately coined as a powerful negative emotional appeal; the choice to include it in a CERN physics workshop presentation is telling.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#103

Post by ThomPete »

tptacek wrote: post #99
ThomPete wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your base for that conclusion?

The CERN apology, the CERN press release, the CERN email on JusticeForStrumia.com, the ParticlesForJustice page, the title of Strumia's presentation, and the slide in which Strumia complains that he wasn't hired for a role one of the women organizers of the workshop was hired for. Hope that helps!

CERNs apology is just a consequence of that presentation not an actual argument against it.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#104

Post by tptacek »

ThomPete wrote: post #103
tptacek wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CERN apology, the CERN press release, the CERN email on JusticeForStrumia.com, the ParticlesForJustice page, the title of Strumia's presentation, and the slide in which Strumia complains that he wasn't hired for a role one of the women organizers of the workshop was hired for. Hope that helps!

CERNs apology is just a consequence of that presentation not an actual argument against it.

I'm not at all sure what your argument is here.

Strumia clearly did mislead CERN and the workshop organizers, pretty clearly gave a presentation to troll the workshop, and clearly launched an attack on another scientist (present at the workshop) during his presentation.

Is your argument that someone should have been able to give a contrarian presentation about gender disparities in physics at this workshop? I agree with you. But that's not what Strumia did. He tried to pwn the libs, and ended up depantsing himself.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#105

Post by travisoneill1 »

chki wrote: post #7

He claims that he could proof his assumptions if he were to be published in a journal but I think it would be very strange if somebody published his "research". He is not a sociologist and this is clearly not his area of expertise.

How about patent clerks publishing in physics journals? Should they allow that?

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#106

Post by sedachv »

tptacek wrote: post #102
ekiru wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Cultural Marxism' is an overtly antisemitic conspiracy theory claiming a devious plot by certain Jewish academics a plot to subvert "western civilization" and attributing their influence as the cause of myriad social and political stances/events/developments that the advocates of this conspiracy theory disapprove of.

Even if you don't believe this (I think Jordan Peterson, who is fond of it, is a charlatan but not at all an anti-Semite), the term obviously occludes more than it clarifies, and was deliberately coined as a powerful negative emotional appeal; the choice to include it in a CERN physics workshop presentation is telling.

"Cultural Marxism" is neither about culture nor about Marxism. The term was coined by anti-Semite William Lind in a speech at a 2002 Holocaust denial conference: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/...

The fact that Peterson adopted the term does not necessarily imply that Peterson is an anti-Semite, but it definitely confirms that he is an idiot who cannot even be bothered to do basic research on the things he likes to rant about.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#107

Post by tzs »

travisoneill1 wrote: post #105
chki wrote: post #7

He claims that he could proof his assumptions if he were to be published in a journal but I think it would be very strange if somebody published his "research". He is not a sociologist and this is clearly not his area of expertise.

How about patent clerks publishing in physics journals? Should they allow that?

If you are referring to Einstein, he had a degree in math and physics and took the patent clerk jobs to make ends meet because he couldn't find a math or physics teaching job.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#108

Post by totalBeginner »

jmole wrote: post #82
bhouston wrote: post #6

I am reminded of Larry Summers, then the head of Harvard, who said something similar: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jan/18/educationsge... I think that previously there was a distinct issue with not enough women going through the degree programs. If the degree programs are 80% men and 20% women, statistically the men will outperform the women in outlier achievements just because there will likely be more p…

I've been reading recently about a structural/sociocultural/technological phenomenon that's actually holding women back in a field where women tend to dominate in representation at the academic level, but are regularly outcompeted by men at the professional level. Piano playing. It all comes down to the shape of the instrument, and hand-span, which is unquestionably (and uncontroversially) larger in men than in women…

So interesting, thanks for sharing!

I have been learning to play piano later in life after growing up playing violin and viola. Although virtually all professional adult violinists play a "full size" violin, smaller sizes exist for children, and I remember wondering as a child whether smaller pianos existed as well. Now, as an adult, I wish there were larger keyboards---the best-practices techniques that my teacher with average hands shows me are physically not possible for my larger hands. So I can easily imagine the inverse would be true.

Violas are an interesting case where, in contrast to the violin, many "full" sizes exist, anywhere from 15 inches to 17 inches to accommodate arm length. I would be curious to see a comparison of whether female violists are better able than female violinists to compete with their male counterparts given the size range of professional violas in contrast to the standardized violin (although I suspect the sample size of violists could be too small).

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#109

Post by tptacek »

sedachv wrote: post #106
tptacek wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you don't believe this (I think Jordan Peterson, who is fond of it, is a charlatan but not at all an anti-Semite), the term obviously occludes more than it clarifies, and was deliberately coined as a powerful negative emotional appeal; the choice to include it in a CERN physics workshop presentation is telling.

"Cultural Marxism" is neither about culture nor about Marxism. The term was coined by anti-Semite William Lind in a speech at a 2002 Holocaust denial conference: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/... The fact that Peterson adopted the term does not necessarily imply that Peterson is an anti-Semite, but it definitely confirms that he is an idiot who cannot even be bothered to do basic researc…

That's useful information, thanks.

Re: CERN cuts ties with 'sexist' scientist Alessandro Strumia

#110

Post by iguy »

jmole wrote: post #82
bhouston wrote: post #6

I am reminded of Larry Summers, then the head of Harvard, who said something similar: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2005/jan/18/educationsge... I think that previously there was a distinct issue with not enough women going through the degree programs. If the degree programs are 80% men and 20% women, statistically the men will outperform the women in outlier achievements just because there will likely be more p…

I've been reading recently about a structural/sociocultural/technological phenomenon that's actually holding women back in a field where women tend to dominate in representation at the academic level, but are regularly outcompeted by men at the professional level. Piano playing. It all comes down to the shape of the instrument, and hand-span, which is unquestionably (and uncontroversially) larger in men than in women…

Thanks that's interesting. I'm astonished there are no 7/8 digital keyboards.

Also, is there an explanation for "dominate in representation at the academic level"? Does it need one?

Post reply on HN