U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#101

Post by yumraj » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

vkou wrote: post #87

yumraj wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who you are or what your agenda is, but any sane person would argue that citing something that happened in early 1800s does not make the same thing OK in 2019.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

> And it works, too. Look at the quality of life in China, compared to India... Or Vietnam.

Can't say for Vietnam as I don't know much, but quality of life in India is much much better than quality of life in China.

People in India have access to full Internet, have access to real Democracy, have freedom of speech, live free life, aren't afraid to speak their mind, minorities are not being thrown in concentration camps, Government has no control over their thoughts and so and so forth. Sure, they may not have as many life's luxuries, but I think most people will take a free-er life than a gilded prison.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#102

Post by bigger_cheese » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

nosequel wrote: post #45

baroffoos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

China stole trade secrets and technology from US Steel and Alcor (aluminum) that allowed them to catch up in technology at an unreasonable pace. This is just one huge example. They don't innovate, they steal and then copy, undercutting others' costs. The US metal producing industry has taken a huge hit and they were the ones to put the R&D money into the production technology.

Do you have more info about this? I work in Steel and I admit I don't have a large high level picture of things, my understanding/perception is the tech innovation in recent decades have come largely from JKT (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) region those countries have the modern plants that are technologically interesting, my understanding is US plants are mostly older previous generation technology so I find it dubious that trade secrets from US plants would have much value any info would be less relevant to modern style plants being built in China.

I'm aware there is a lot of shades of grey around large commercially sensitive ore contract negotiations etc - see Stern Hu case https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-07-04/stern-hu-explainer-wh...

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#103

Post by bendoernberg » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:02 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #95

vkou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita. If another country with a larger population matched us in productivity, they would be the #1 economy and would get benefits that I and many others living in the US enjoy. One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural ri…

> any foreigner can move to the US to contribute to and enjoy the benefits of being #1

This is not true. There's, at a minimum, hundreds of millions of people who'd like to move here and can't.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#104

Post by skh » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

malandrew wrote: post #95

vkou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita. If another country with a larger population matched us in productivity, they would be the #1 economy and would get benefits that I and many others living in the US enjoy. One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural ri…

One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural rights, such as free speech, private property, etc.

I think your view of the last 50 years of American intervention in other countries is not based in fact. The U.S. has consistently subverted democratic principles. We’ve done this in Central America, Iran in the 1950s, Haiti, South Vietnam, South Africa, Cambodia, etc. The U.S. government frequently promotes regimes that are antithetical to the promotion of natural rights and democratic ideals.

It’s fine to want the U.S. to be number 1 and to want to prevent China from becoming number 1 but one should not believe that the U.S. has been anything other than a self interested hegemon the last 50 years.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#105

Post by make3 » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

product50 wrote: post #100

To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today…

the quantity matters, and it's very clear that China did it a lot more. Also, Meng got arrested because we are in a state of law and she broke the law, not because some despot chose to

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#106

Post by vkou » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:11 AM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #101

vkou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

> And it works, too. Look at the quality of life in China, compared to India... Or Vietnam. Can't say for Vietnam as I don't know much, but quality of life in India is much much better than quality of life in China. People in India have access to full Internet, have access to real Democracy, have freedom of speech, live free life, aren't afraid to speak their mind, minorities are not being thrown in concentration cam…

Ten years behind in life expectancy, five times behind in GDP, despite starting from a similar economic footing in 1948... Except China had to deal with five decades of communist misrule, three of which were under the leadership of, well, Mao Zedong.

This isn't a 'Oh, China enjoys a few more luxuries then India'. Today, there are three hundred million people in China that are living nearly-western lifestyles, whereas twenty years ago, there weren't any.

There's nearly an order of magnitude in the difference of development, between the two countries.

Don't get me wrong - India has made a lot of great achievements over the twentieth and twenty-first centuries. But if you were to ask - which approach to trade brings prosperity - the winner is pretty clear.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#107

Post by thetechlead » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:15 AM UTC

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade).

Wow. This is a blatant lie. Where did you get this piece? The Chinese phrase means developing the technology to a certain level that an embargo no longer works as intended. There are plenty examples in space technologies - US prohibits NASA collaboration with China and there are indigenous innovation breakthrough from within like landing on the far side of the moon.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#108

Post by baroffoos » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:17 AM UTC

Varcht wrote: post #71

ndnxhs wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of things in patents could not be kept secret. What we end up with is disposable products because every part is patented so you can't make replacements or other devices that are compatible.

For most things, feel free to reproduce patented parts for your own consumption, just don't give them away or try to sell them.

Thats a non answer. I don't have metal working tools sitting around in my shed that would let me whip up a replacement part for things. As a society we throw away so many things because they contain patented parts and the original company wont sell replacements or they sell them at enormous prices.

Hopefully in the future metal 3D printing becomes common and cheap so we will be able to source replacement parts from torrent websites.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#109

Post by hungryhobo » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:24 AM UTC

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

I'm sorry but this is bullshit

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#110

Post by largehotcoffee » Tue, Jan 29, 2019, 2:25 AM UTC

thetechlead wrote: post #107

educationdata wrote: post #23

In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). The U.S. does not even need to collect evidence through investigation. Just by reading Chinese news reports and textbooks, you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. I heard from my Chinese friends who work in the U…

> In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). Wow. This is a blatant lie. Where did you get this piece? The Chinese phrase means developing the technology to a certain level that an embargo no longer works as intended. There are plenty examples in space technologies - US prohibits NASA collaboration with China and there are indigenous innovation breakthrough from within like…

>Simply put, Huawei's products have better quality and companies in the US can't compete with it.

>I'm now typing on a Huawei Matebook 13 and carrying a Huawei Mate 10 phone. Those things have amazing quality and it's a real pity customers can't have them in the States.

You have an interesting post history supporting Huawei for an account only a month old...