Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France • Hacker News Board

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#101

Post by gambiting » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

atoav wrote: post #74

gambiting wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is easily solved by making the fine proportional to your income, as it already is in many European countries. And then the penalty points hurt equally because you will lose your licence regardless of how rich your are once you get enough points.

The revoking of a license also hurts poor people improportionally more. If you depend on your car and need it to get to your job, loosing the ability to drive will: A) make you loose your job B) go in debt to solve your mobility problem C) make you do stupid things like driving without license D) maybe you are lucky and there is cheap public transport or it is close enough for cycling For a rich person A to C are usu…

But if someone is putting others at danger, they shouldn't be treated with mercy just because they are poor. If you drive dangerously why does it matter that you need your car to feed your family? It doesn't and it shouldn't.

Yes the consequences are worse for a poor person, but that's like saying that consequences of murder are worse for a poor person - if they go to prison then their family is now at risk because maybe they were the only money making person in the family. Rich person's family is probably going to be fine. But does that mean that poor people should be punished less for murder? Of course this is hyperbole now, but I think the same principle applies.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#102

Post by seszett » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

toolslive wrote: post #90

megaremote wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to stop you speeding EVERYWHERE. Not just where speed cameras are. It is to penalise people who constantly break the law, and make the road dangerous for everyone.

There are places here in Belgium where everybody is officially 'speeding' (so driving more than 10km/h faster than what's allowed) and where even the police admits the speed limit was set too low. Guess where they put the hidden mobile cameras. If they were really really interested in making the roads safer for everyone, they would combine driving on the right with the right of way for people coming from the left iso…

Everyone is speeding everywhere in Belgium. We also get a lot more casualties (by inhabitant, by vehicle, by kilometer, any metric you take) than France. France has about 30% less deaths than Belgium, and gives right of way to people coming from the right. The road rules are almost exactly the same between the two countries.

If anything, I think it just shows that speed limits are not enforced well enough (and I think it should start with switching to a points permit) in Belgium. I also personally find them often too high, with 70 often being allowed in urban areas outside the core parts of towns.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#103

Post by Xylakant » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:10 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #35

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

They would make the roads safer if they weren't used so often as money machines. Do they stand at schools? Nope. They stand at the bottom of the hill at the exit of a town.

There's a truly simple trick that makes you invisible for the attempt to use them as money machine. It's incredibly simple. Do not exceed the speed limit. I tried it. It works!

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#104

Post by PunchTornado » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

dijit wrote: post #38

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Technically not true. There are accidents caused by those who slow unexpectedly because they only just realised there's a speed-trap. It adds an element of unpredictability to the road. This almost completely offsets any positive safety gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/ Which makes me think it's a cash-grab.

the speed camera is there to protect cyclists and pedestrians, not the driver or his car.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#105

Post by ammojamo » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

> We need car control every bit as much as gun control, and speed cameras are a big part of that. People die when drivers are left unchecked. Disproportionately, it's people not inside cars.

I agree completely.

To be honest, from a safety perspective, I would be happy if speed cameras were integrated with street lighting so that basically every stretch of road was covered by speed cameras.

That said, I think that penalties should be in the form of a points system that ultimately results in losing your driver's license if you consistently speed. Financial penalties seem to disproportionately penalise the poor.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#106

Post by cm2187 » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:11 AM UTC

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

I wish there were also minimum safe distance cameras.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#107

Post by cm2187 » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #85

Hoasi wrote: post #50

Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. The French government has already stepped back before. But it never seems enough for protesters. It does look like a much bigger movement than the state had anticipated. If enough people stop paying taxes this will get serious.

> Welcome to civil non-compliance 2.0: vandalism as a form of protest. So now taxes perceived as unjust warrant the destruction of state property in retaliation. A proud history of civil non-compliance, from the French Revolution, 1848, and the Commune to May 68, is what made France what it is, and helped usher us into the modern freedoms and rights.

I don't think many french are proud of the commune, outside of the far left.

Even the 1789 French revolution was a bloodshed that resulted into a even tougher dictatorship (the First Empire)...

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#108

Post by seszett » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #78

megaremote wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to stop you speeding EVERYWHERE. Not just where speed cameras are. It is to penalise people who constantly break the law, and make the road dangerous for everyone.

How can anyone say this seriously? This is the stupidest thing I keep hearing from certain people. The idea is to make money for the police department and the municipality. https://www.leg33.com/maryland-speed-camera-fraud/ https://steemit.com/technology/@doitvoluntarily/are-traffic-... http://time.com/3505994/red-light-camera-problems-tickets/ https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/617207/Speed-cameras-safet... https://w…

French speedcam fines don't go to the police department or the municipality, they go to the interior ministry and mostly fund infrastructure maintenance (including the speedcams themselves).

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#109

Post by C1sc0cat » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #61

CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).

Well from experience in the UK in the country there is a lot of using tax exempt red diesel (meant for tractors etc) in your diesel car.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#110

Post by galfarragem » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 10:13 AM UTC

Yellow Vests movement is not about speed cameras neither cheap oil: that's just the folklore part.

Yellow Vests movement is a reaction from the silent parts of middle class that are the pillar of democracy: private sector employees. This (traditionally) silent crowd feels plundered by the government to support policies and lifestyles that they don't agree with.