Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France • Hacker News Board

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#61

Post by Cthulhu_ » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

It's not that people want cheap diesel, they want their job and wages to match up with the cost of living. The proportion between wages and cost of living has gotten worse over time (while the ones responsible for that, lawmakers and employers, have enriched themselves).

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#62

Post by megaremote » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

Bayart wrote: post #27

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

They're not located at areas where lower speeds would improve safety, they're located at areas where they make the most money. At least that's how people feel. I'm personally generally dubious on speed limit based policies.

Rubbish. This is just a complete lie, spread by people not wanting to drive safely. It is up there with speed doesn't kill, and I drive better when I have had a few drinks.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#63

Post by seren » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:53 AM UTC

dijit wrote: post #38

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Technically not true. There are accidents caused by those who slow unexpectedly because they only just realised there's a speed-trap. It adds an element of unpredictability to the road. This almost completely offsets any positive safety gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/ Which makes me think it's a cash-grab.

I have looked at the study you linked, I don't find it very convincing because it is only counting the number of incidents (or MVC), but not the seriousness of the resulting collision.

I would assume that if speed cameras decrease the average speed (which might or might not be true!), even if you have the same number of incidents, you should see a reduction in the seriousness of injuries.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#64

Post by TomMarius » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

seszett wrote: post #11

TomMarius wrote: post #2

"Some protesters feel speed cameras are solely a revenue-generating measure which takes money from the poor." This is also the case in Central and Eastern Europe. EDIT: Please read what I cited properly. The citation includes the "Some protesters feel ..." part, which is what I meant - that many people in central and eastern Europe feel the same, not that I feel they're right (what I think is irrelevant).

Yes, many people think that but for my part, I have really noticed a big decrease in speeding since these fixed speed cameras have been put into place, in the last 15 years or so. It was not unusual to have people drive 150 km/h or so on the 110 speedways I was taking then, or 110 on the 90 countryside roads. Nowadays it seems like only few people break speed limits by such margins. In Belgium however (where I live n…

Of course not all speed cameras are bad. However in my country there is a lot of speed cameras right before a town ends - that means that people will start slowly speeding up from 50 km/h to 90 km/h and thus the camera will catch them going 60 km/h and give them a pointless fine. Same thing at the beginning - what is the point (except for money) in fining people who didn't brake soon/hard enough so they entered the town going 60 km/h? Why not place these cameras a little bit more inside the town?

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#65

Post by goldenkey » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

merb wrote: post #36

goldenkey wrote: post #4

Yellow vests were chosen as a symbol because, since 2008, a law had required all French motorists to have high-visibility vests in their vehicles when driving. As a result, reflective vests had become widely available, inexpensive, and recognisable. [1] Obligatory referenced video of the boxer vs police: https://youtu.be/iUw37-eNSxg [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_vests_movement

From the video above, his statements are simply false.

It doesn't look like he was tear gassed - is that the statement you are referring to?

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#66

Post by _Microft » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #53

CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

I also believe that people just do not know yet how much nicer and relaxing it will be to be automatically driven at the speed limit even if the street looks like you could go faster and then, as a driver, having to restrain one-self from going faster.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#67

Post by Cthulhu_ » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

Traster wrote: post #55

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Do they? Because quite simply it doesn't seem like the evidence backs that up - let alone the brutally obvious fact that if you stand next to a speed camera you'll notice all the cars just slow down for the camera. If what you meant to say was 'Speed Cameras make the 30m of road that they're focused on mildly safer than it was before whilst mildly increasing the likelihood of accidents due to unexpected braking in th…

There's a rise in speed cameras that record average speed over a longer span of road - on the A2 highway here it's very effective, a twelve lane highway where nobody goes above 100 km/h.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#68

Post by IneffablePigeon » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:54 AM UTC

dijit wrote: post #38

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

Technically not true. There are accidents caused by those who slow unexpectedly because they only just realised there's a speed-trap. It adds an element of unpredictability to the road. This almost completely offsets any positive safety gain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3861844/ Which makes me think it's a cash-grab.

That study is along a single road in a single city, and only looks at the absolute number of collisions. As it says, one of the main benefits of lower speeds is that it dramatically decreases kinetic energy - but the study didn't take into account how dangerous those collisions that happened actually were. Number of injuries and fatalities seems like a much better measure of "safety" to me than just number of collisions.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#69

Post by yzb » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

TomK32 wrote: post #53

CalRobert wrote: post #26

I used to dislike speed cameras. I thought they were part of an encroaching surveillance state and took judgment away from officers. Then (and sorry, I know it's a tired thing to say) I had a kid. And my god, the people who will go FAR over the limit right down your street where people are pushing prams, kids are walking along, etc. is astounding. It's enough to make you hate all drivers, though a moment of reflectio…

As a cyclist I use as much space of the road as I can just to make sure cars behind me have to use the other lane to overtake or slow down and wait for a good moment. I can't wait for laws to enforce speed limits via tech in modern cars.

Doesn't surprise me that drivers hate cyclists so much.

Re: Yellow vests knock out 60% of all speed cameras in France

#70

Post by TomK32 » Fri, Jan 11, 2019, 9:56 AM UTC

chrisper wrote: post #35

eastendguy wrote: post #14

Why the hate for speed cameras? I love speed cameras because they make the roads safer for everyone. (And yes, once in a while I get a ticket as well, which is always a good reminder to drive safely.)

They would make the roads safer if they weren't used so often as money machines. Do they stand at schools? Nope. They stand at the bottom of the hill at the exit of a town.

Those are also the places where you find those little crosses and similar markers at the side. The deadliest stretches of road are the most remote ones which are mistaken for race tracks...