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EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

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Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#101

Post by TeMPOraL »

andybak wrote: post #95
WA wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blame the web devs and their bad implementation of it. It’s really not that hard to get right (unless of course you don’t really want to comply).

Agree that getting the region wrong is sloppy. But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for .

> But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for.

Local storage? Detect if cookies are blocked? Or, simply don't use cookies for purposes other than providing the service - which exempts you from the need to show the message?

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#102

Post by TeMPOraL »

boznz wrote: post #44
sonnyblarney wrote: post #36

It would be prudent for Wikipedia at this time to shut down service in the EU, and simply put up a banner indicating that they can't comply with XYZ regulation. Regular folks in all walks of life, and also the bureaucracy would immediately be effected. It would be a 'shock' to Europe and a powerful signal of how vital these resources are, and the real extent they are messing with them. Basically, everyone would becom…

If someone adds a wordpress plug-in for this I will install it tomorrow for a laugh :-)

There were blackout plugins around since SOPA/ACTA times. I had one on my old Wordpress blog for SOPA.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#103

Post by q12we34rt5 »

tastroder wrote: post #100
greggyb wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sort of freedom referred to has nothing to do with a zero-price. It has to do with the ability of two consenting adults (or we can say "willing parties" if you want) to enter into a transaction to exchange goods or services, or proxies (like dollars). The opposite of such a freedom is not that one party chooses to charge for some of its services, but that one party is prevented from offering such a service.

You mean like... Netflix being prevented from streaming through your ISP (the only one available in your area mind) because Google paid it more to prefer YouTube traffic? The things Americans will frame as freedom of choice will continue to baffle me I guess.

>You mean like... Netflix being prevented from streaming through your ISP (the only one available in your area mind) because Google paid it more to prefer YouTube traffic?

You mean a thing that has literally never happened anywhere in the US?

> The things Americans will frame as freedom of choice will continue to baffle me I guess.

I understand that you are frustrated with what is happening with this new legislation but it doesn't help you to make up smug fantasies about America just to make yourself feel better. Your energy would be better spent on your own knitting and maybe this kind of thing wouldn't happen.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#104

Post by bryanrasmussen »

tokyodude wrote: post #97
Loic wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is very good in fact. If you read through it as a person, it is basically the way we should have operated from the start. Reading it while wearing the hat of my role in my company, I can see all the points where we are collecting data without a well defined process and clear understanding from the end users. It is hard to fix this, but it is for my own good as a person.

Can you explain to me how the deletion policies work? If you ask for your data to be deleted does that include your address in my contacts? Does it include your messages to me? Does it include your posts that appeared on my feed? In the physical world all of those would be mine. Addresses: It would be my paper address book with your address written in it. Email: would paper letters you sent to me that I keep in my fi…

The things sent digitally from me to you end being my property and end up being your property immediately as long as the sending is not part of some business arrangement, but if it is some business arrangement that business is regulated, and when it becomes your property if ever can be dependent on many different factors of your business.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#105

Post by q12we34rt5 »

Superleroy wrote: post #93
czardoz wrote: post #41

With the Great Firewall in China and Regressive laws in the EU, the US feels like the only place where users have the freedom to choose what their internet should be. Unfortunately, they have to deal with clicking on cookie notices, GDPR and now this.

I almost had to laugh after the US just recently abolished Net Neutrality. And what is the grind with cookie notices and GDPR? I very much like to know what companies can do with my data, what data they have and demand deletion of it. This is not against companies, it's for people. Companies should have had these information in the first place, now they just need to display it to the user but I guess thats too much t…

>I almost had to laugh after the US just recently abolished Net Neutrality

Your laughter is misplaced. America didn't have net neutrality up until fairly recently and before it was enacted, the internet worked just fine. It'll work just fine now. And if it really matters that much to you that you feel some kind of emotional release from your own worries, just know that many states are already putting laws on the books to reinstate it.

Edit: I can't seem to respond to Superleroy so I'll put it here. Laughter is good but laughing at the imagined misfortune of others indicates moral failing. Regarding the state of internet in the US, that is easy to test out. I have Comcast. Name any website or any service and I'll see if I have any trouble accessing it. As it stands, I haven't noticed anything amiss. I run ssh, a web server, I have several Python script that run all day consuming web socket feeds. I naturally stream video etc. No problems and it is all very fast. I have access to 2 Gigabit service. I believe your assertion that my Internet isn't good is in error. You did mention that it makes you happy to laugh at other's misfortune though so if it makes you happy, imagine my internet being terrible. I won't be mad.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#106

Post by fsloth »

baroffoos wrote: post #9
sjroot wrote: post #3

Policies like this make it glaringly obvious how little our government representatives around the world understand technology. It almost seems malicious, or at the very least anticompetitive. Who has access to such filtering systems already, or the resources to create one? GRPR regulations, while I absolutely realize their necessity, have made it difficult for me to expand my side business into the EU. This would jus…

I think they do understand exactly what is going on but they know that upload filters are faulty almost always in favor of people with money. Upload filters like ones on youtube are super biased towards taking down anything that looks like copyrighted content but they also take out a load of legitimate content. Its now up to the content owner to prove that their content was fair use or that its not even the same thin…

"In the end the big companies win and the individuals lose."

That's how other industries are run nowadays. I'm not saying it's a good thing, but that rather this does not come from cluelesness about tech, but more about bringing tech into the legislatory mainstream.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#107

Post by ahje »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #101
andybak wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree that getting the region wrong is sloppy. But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for .

> But how does one avoid asking every time when cookies are blocked? What other implementation option is possible? This is what cookies are for. Local storage? Detect if cookies are blocked? Or, simply don't use cookies for purposes other than providing the service - which exempts you from the need to show the message?

> Or, simply don't use cookies for purposes other than providing the service

This, or as a minimum: Don't track people who has the DNT header set.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#108

Post by q12we34rt5 »

tzfld wrote: post #94
czardoz wrote: post #41

With the Great Firewall in China and Regressive laws in the EU, the US feels like the only place where users have the freedom to choose what their internet should be. Unfortunately, they have to deal with clicking on cookie notices, GDPR and now this.

I would say neither the Great Wall nor the European laws will threaten the freedom of internet as much as the large US internet monopolies enforcing their behavior on the whole network.

>I would say neither the Great Wall nor the European laws will threaten the freedom of internet as much as the large US internet monopolies enforcing their behavior on the whole network.

And thanks to this copyright law, these companies that affect both of us equally today will be much worse for your tomorrow. The upstarts to challenge these so-called monopolies won't be hamstrung by weird EU laws in the US but they won't be able to even try to challenge the incumbents on European soil lest they run afoul. So a problem that everybody had is now much worse for you. And you take time out of your day to be smug.

Edit: @krageon, Facebook is having much difficulty with the younger demographics and other services not owned by them are siphoning off their users. And Google is mortally afraid of voice search and assistants eating their lunch. They are not unassailable. But we really don't need their positions further cemented with misguided laws.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#109

Post by TheCoelacanth »

perl4ever wrote: post #71
TheCoelacanth wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, do email addresses on the comments on a blog site fall under that protection? That is not unclear at all. They absolutely do. That doesn't mean you can't have them, but it means you need consent, you need to be clear about how you will use them and you need to let people withdraw consent.

You can't win an argument about whether something is unclear by proving (let alone merely asserting) it is so. This is something a lot of people seem unclear on.

The only people unclear on this point are people who have failed to do even the most basic research into what GDPR says. It is blindingly obvious that an email is information that can be used to identify a person.

Re: EU Copyright: Block Everything, Never Make Mistakes, but Don't Use Upload Filter

#110

Post by willeh »

tokyodude wrote: post #97
Loic wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is very good in fact. If you read through it as a person, it is basically the way we should have operated from the start. Reading it while wearing the hat of my role in my company, I can see all the points where we are collecting data without a well defined process and clear understanding from the end users. It is hard to fix this, but it is for my own good as a person.

Can you explain to me how the deletion policies work? If you ask for your data to be deleted does that include your address in my contacts? Does it include your messages to me? Does it include your posts that appeared on my feed? In the physical world all of those would be mine. Addresses: It would be my paper address book with your address written in it. Email: would paper letters you sent to me that I keep in my fi…

> Can you explain to me how the deletion policies work?

Disclaimer: The GDPR hasn't been the law of the land for a year, so there is little precedent.

It is fairly simple, the GDPR requires that companies that control identifying information about you (or somehow delegate this), have acceptable reasons for doing so (user consent/other law/etc). When some entity controls your information the GDPR gives you certain rights. The key point here is that the company is controlling your information not you, whereas the scrapbook is under your control. The loss of control of the information creates in my mind a moral obligation to treat it a certain way. One of the rights that the GDPR confers on the data-subject is the having data deleted, this right is not absolute and if you have any other grounds (e.g. AML regulation) for keeping the data then you don't have to delete it. Additionally, deletion doesn't have to be immediately consistent, so you won't have to go into old backups and delete the data there.

TL;DR: If someone asks you to remove something, just delete it from your SQL database, and that's it.

There are two key costs for startups implementing the GDPR:

1. Privacy by Design - Make some efforts to design the information systems in your company in a way that promotes privacy. 2. Demonstrating compliance - This tasks scales with company size, you might start out with a boilerplate privacy policy, but as you grow want to be more diligent.

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