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Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

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101–110 of 488 posts

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#101
post #63

How does Tesla fail so badly at basic collision avoidance?? Surely the LIDAR is able to detect an imminent collision, but at least in the recent fire truck and lane-split barrier incidents, the cars didn't even slow down?! That seems really fundamental. Edit: so they don't use lidar... Is this a machine vision failure, then?

My understanding is that they detect moving obstacles much more easily than stationary.

This is because almost everything in the environment is stationary to the car, so it is hard to distinguish between stationary things in your way and stationary things just off to the side.

So if the car in front of you slows down, it's obvious that you'll hit it if you don't slow down.

A car parked partially in your lane might just look like regular noise to the sensors. That is, using the current technology, if they (correctly) classified the parked car as an obstacle then they would (incorrectly) classify so many non-dangerous situations as obstacles so as to make the system infeasible; the car would emergency brake constantly as it drives down the road.

Some would say that until those obstacles can be classified correctly such technology should not be used at all, but I think it's probably doing more good than harm at the moment and hopefully a good solution can be found quickly. Even if they do fix this problem soon, I'm sure we'll hear plenty of stories where something goes wrong anyway, but hopefully they won't seem so obviously avoidable (who hits a parked car!)

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#102
I keep wondering what the customer benefit of Level 2 autopilot is if not to lower your attention and relax your mind. Tesla's "out" is that drivers are supposed to retain full attention and oversight of the autopilot system -- but then if you strictly follow this rule, what is the benefit of autopilot?

I can see the benefit to Tesla and future Tesla customers of essentially crowdsourced fleet learning. But what is the benefit right now if you strictly follow the rule of remaining alert enough to intervene at a second's notice?

In previous threads the best explanation I got from Tesla owners was that it frees you from the "details of physically driving" so you "can now supervise instead."[1] That just seems suspect. Supervising autopilot to the degree required to correct sudden mistakes seems, to me, to be probably very close to the mental load of the details of steering yourself.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17151116

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#103
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then maybe they shouldn't call it auto pilot? I mean, how dumb of a name could they have chosen if they didn't want people to think the car can drive itself? They should also retrain their sales staff because on my test drive the saleswoman specifically told me the car could drive itself and that I should take my hands off the wheel to test it out. They should also retrain their CEO who keeps talking about "self…

Have full self driving hardware != full self driving software != full self driving capabilities. Auto pilot - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopilot "An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of an aircraft without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required. Autopilots do not replace human operators, but instead they assist them in controlling the aircraft. This allows them to focus…

If you want to be maximally pedantic, advanced autopilots are indeed capable of flying the plane by themselves. Modern commercial and military aircraft can take off, fly a route, and put the plane back on the ground, all by themselves. And autonomously flying a route is not unusual at all even in better-equipped small aircraft.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1026435

Autoland has been around for more than 80 years and been used commercially for 60 of those.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autoland.

It's pretty obvious what Tesla is getting at when they are advertising "every car sold with self-driving hardware".

The asterisk is of course that the hardware is self-driving capable, but the software isn't. But it's not hard to see where people are getting that idea from - it's Tesla's advertising and sales material.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 8 SF VC autopilot crash, she took over control just before the autopilot crash, Tesla blamed her for being in control when the crash happened. In her words 'its your fault if you take control, its your fault when you do not take control'. That's right. It's your fault either way, driver, just like it is in airplanes with autopilot.

Perhaps they should require the same level of training for car auto-pilot as for plane auto-pilot

I don’t think airplane autopilots require any specific training. If you’re allowed to fly the plane, you’re allowed to use the autopilot.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#105
post #46

They should name the feature smart cruise control. Case closed. IT does not imply self driving capability but rather more advanced cruise control system. Which is basically what it is. Nobody is going to set a cruise control to a certain speed and look away from the road!!!

The numerous drivers I see texting every day would beg to differ.

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#106
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Auto pilot != Self driving. People love to conflate these two so much that the people saying it rely on everybody else conflating it to justify their ignorance. This is just like Fox "some people say" - Fox people say! Or Javascript Bitcoin miners - Monero is not Bitcoin! It's snowing so there is no global warming - It is "climate change" but the entire globe is warming! This hurricane is just weather, not climate ch…

https://www.tesla.com/autopilot/ -> big text saying "Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars" + video showcasing said capability. You have to go way down to "Enhanced Autopilot" section to read the smaller text that mentions that its subject to regulatory approval, and that the driver is responsible. If you don't think that's misleading advertising, I don't know what is.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#107
post #27
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One can also see elevators as self-driving electric vertical motion vehicles. Sure, they are not operating on public roads, and the extra constraints reduce complexity, but they've been around for a while. Personally, I don't see mining operations as anything remotely close to public roads autonomous vehicles because you have a controlled environment in which paid workers that have been trained to interact with equip…

Very large work sites are far from completely controlled environments. Visitors, wildlife, weather, equipment malfunctions, human error, and a host of edge cases from trespassers to protesters.

See neighbor comment from someone who actually knows of what they speak: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17184043

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#108
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's "Auto-pilot" is one of the most blatant market-speak lies I have come across lately, and they have been getting away it.

But not any worse than the term cruise control really.

Since circa 1968, "cruise control" has been used to refer to automatic throttle adjustment to maintain speed. [1] Is there some previous meaning that makes you think it misleading? Because I've never thought of it as meaning anything else.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cruise_control#History

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a solved issue, but Tesla doesn’t use LIDAR so it will never be solved for them.

Why not? Isn't this the solution? I do remember hearing a while back that the cost for a lidar rig was around 5k, but given the fact it would save lives this seems like an obvious move?

Musk has stated publicly multiple times that he believes autonomous driving can be solved without LIDAR and directed the team at Tesla to not use it. https://www.theverge.com/2018/2/7/16988628/elon-musk-lidar-s...

Re: Tesla in autopilot mode crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser

#110
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla's "Auto-pilot" is one of the most blatant market-speak lies I have come across lately, and they have been getting away it.

But not any worse than the term cruise control really.

"Tesla on cruise control crashes into parked Laguna Beach police cruiser"

^ I wouldn't have bothered to read the article. BUT it is the exact same thing. [Just a system to help you drive]

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