Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics • Hacker News Board

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#101

Post by fsloth » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

oceanghost wrote: post #44

empath75 wrote: post #10

When he talks about the default mode network that sort of matches with my intuitive understanding of what the experience of taking psychedelics is like. People do things in loops— they go to work every day, come back home every day, hang out with the same people, engage in the same hobbies, think the same thoughts. It’s just our natural mode of being to repeat ourselves, and psychedelics seem to just shut all of that…

I have used drugs extensively-- good ones and bad. I'd be happy to answer any questions, but you're on the right track here except for the ineffable. Drugs distort the pattern matching systems in your brain. You see patterns that are there, patterns that aren't, patterns of patterns, patterns of patterns of patterns. You make connections that you should and shouldn't. If I could describe my phsycelidc experinces--of…

"Any description of the religious experneices ive had would be, inadequate. You've either had one, or they're complete fucking nonsense."

I've never used drugs, but based on my experience I totally understand the statement that the purely analytic mode of thought does not encompass the whole of human experience.

I had a deeply profound sense of being one with the universe as a teenager after a regular session of meditation.

I would not say it did anything for my atheism. I believe humans are complex and deep creatures with enormous hidden potential, and these mystical experiences just bring it to the surface.

Drugs are not the only way to access mystical experiences, but I certainly don't begrudge their use.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#102

Post by sev » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:17 AM UTC

Psychedelics should be treated with respect. I often speak to people who have no clue what dosage they take or took. Due to the potency, it’s not as easy as other substances to know whether you’ve had too much, and that’s why they require extra care.

You could die if you drink too much water, or if it is contaminated; that doesn’t mean water isn’t good for you.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#103

Post by bfuller » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:19 AM UTC

heracles wrote: post #88

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Can't you see it as a indication of the opposite of what we typically call God? That instead of there being an external entity outside our universe interacting with you, you talked to something God-like inside yourself. This might be what you share with every person in history that ever have received divine inspiration. That same experience motivated them. Just like we can share experience with other people when we a…

This person was unwilling or unable to assimilate their experience and now they are blaming LSD.

Funny enough, if he kept taking LSD and exploring his spirituality he could deal with the feelings of believing in science but being shaken by the possibility of the supernatural. That's actually pretty straightforward.

But he is choosing to close the book on it, and now is blaming the drug when really its himself. An act of ego if I've ever seen one.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#104

Post by gepi79 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:21 AM UTC

atombender wrote: post #96

gepi79 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. This is not true. Different people respond differently to different drugs. The experience also depends on the dose and the set and setting. Not all people are fine with hallucinations and psychedelic trips. Not all people are happy with a perfect set and setting. To promote psychedelics as possible solution for mental disorders (anxiety, dep…

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite, but you cherrypicked one person's cautionary, own-ass-covering advice to make a contrary argument. The article itself points out that people overwhelmingly come out of he experience with positive personality changes! Also, nobody is arguing that irresponsible use of psilocybin here. The person you quoted is saying that unsupervised psilocybin use is potentially…

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite

I argue against the private use of drugs and psychedelics. Especially against the private use of psychedelics to solve existing problems.

I argue for the use of drugs only as medicine by medical experts.

That people believe they had great insights does not mean that it is actually true. Religious people think their god is real and important. Some people argue that the Earth is flat. Some people deny climate change.

The fact that you brought up cannabis, of all things, the world's most popular recreational drug (after alcohol and tobacco), tells me that you are not quite informed.

You sound like the typical drug apologist with only personal experience that, by pure luck, was good in your opinion until today. To counter comments like yours is why I am writing this, trying to prevent needless misery created by bad use of psychedelics.

Many people use the psychiatric service for the first time because of mental disorders (e.g. panic attacks, psychosis, schizophrenia,...) triggered by psychedelics including mushrooms and cannabis.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#105

Post by lobster_johnson » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:24 AM UTC

bfuller wrote: post #94

lobster_johnson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms. I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms? Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a…

>as I know nobody has ever come out of a shroom trip with their brains scrambled. you would be wrong. if you are predisposed to psychosis shrooms can trigger that. I get it that you prefer mushrooms. But most people actually handle LSD better than mushrooms. So the fact you trashed LSD is a little silly.

"Brains scrambled" implies permanent negative effects. I have never encountered any evidence that psilocybin has contributed to psychological damage, unlike LSD and its famed/apparent tendency to provoke flashbacks years later.

On the other hand, there are increasing numbers of recent studies that refute the idea that psilocybin is as dangerous as some people have claimed in the past [1] [2]:

> We failed to find any associations between lifetime use of psychedelics and past year serious psychological distress, receiving or needing mental health treatment, depression, anxiety, or suicidal thoughts or behavior in the past year. Rather, lifetime use of psychedelics was associated with decreased inpatient psychiatric treatment.

I'm unable to find any studies showing a link between psilocybin and the triggering of latent mental illness. There's some debate about whether age is possibly not coincidental, in the sense that the heaviest users of "hard" psychedelics like LSD tend to start at an age which coincides with the emergence of latent disorders such as schizophrenia, implying that there isn't necessarily a cause and effect.

Nobody is obviously promoting irresponsible use of psychedelics. That said, everything in life has risk. The risks involved with psilocybin seem infinitesimally small compared to those of, say, alcohol or smoking.

[1] http://www.emmasofia.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Psychede...

[2] https://cogumelosmagicos.org/comunidade/attachments/j-psycho...

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#106

Post by bfuller » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:26 AM UTC

Jedi72 wrote: post #60

GuiA wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) You should disclose all the substances you took for your comment to have any validity as anecdata. Your story is very different whether the “other substances” were “marijuana and theine” or “datura and cocaine”.

They were other recreational drugs - N2O and Marijuana

Ok your comment is EXTREMELY misleading. Taking nitrous while on LSD is a COMPLETELY different ballgame than LSD on its own.

And your comment is just railing against LSD. Ridiculous.

You have no place to be telling people about psychedelics.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#107

Post by toomanybeersies » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:28 AM UTC

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #100

toomanybeersies wrote: post #63

Aldous Huxley, dying of terminal cancer, took LSD on his deathbed, and died while on his final trip (it was planned that way), although a relatively low dose of 100ug. It seems to me like it would be a good way to go, a good way to conquer the fear of the unknown after you die. In a related experience, once when I was on a bender, I took 3 tabs of lsd, along with a whole plethora of other substances. I actually thoug…

In short, you're not experiencing the universe. You're experiencing your own mind.

Absolutely. I do think that everyone should try psychedelics at least once, in a comfortable, controlled environment with friends.

You may not unlock the secrets to the universe, but I do think it teaches you an important lesson that your reality and experiences are subjective. I don't mean that reality itself is subjective, but our perceptions of it are. LSD will mess with your perceptions in really weird ways that can't really be described with words. Things like your perception of depth and age get thrown off completely.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#108

Post by fapjacks » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:32 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #29

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

> I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) You should disclose all the substances you took for your comment to have any validity as anecdata. Your story is very different whether the “other substances” were “marijuana and theine” or “datura and cocaine”.

Wow, you and I should get together and go bowling sometime!

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#109

Post by gepi79 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:34 AM UTC

bfuller wrote: post #95

gepi79 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

Psychedelics should be a last resort, as you can trigger underlying conditions, I agree. But microdosing LSD has saved lives pulling people out of suicidal depression. There's a reason its highly regarded, because for those of us that benefit, its literally a miracle.

Yes.

Too many articles and drug users promote psychedelics as harmless safe easy miracle drugs (for mental problems).

Readers might ignore that positive studies were conducted by medical experts. AFAIK all experts warn against the private use of drugs and psychedelics.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#110

Post by Jedi72 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:39 AM UTC

bfuller wrote: post #106

Jedi72 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were other recreational drugs - N2O and Marijuana

Ok your comment is EXTREMELY misleading. Taking nitrous while on LSD is a COMPLETELY different ballgame than LSD on its own. And your comment is just railing against LSD. Ridiculous. You have no place to be telling people about psychedelics.

Ok, sure. Let my advice of "be careful" be stricken from the record.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯