Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics • Hacker News Board

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#91

Post by StanislavPetrov » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:52 AM UTC

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

>These drugs are extremely powerful. They can potentially destroy healthy minds.

As someone who has also done LSD, I'd agree with this. However, I'd also suggest that shattering a sense of "certainty" and introducing doubt into the mind of someone who previously had certainty isn't necessarily "destroying a healthy mind". What you characterize as a, "crack in my sanity that I can never completely fix", could also be characterized as expanding your awareness. It can be frightening and permanently altering to tear away the facades our psyches have created, since birth, to process and "understand" reality as we perceive it (even temporarily). That's what LSD does. While I also don't consider this a spiritual experience, I do consider it extremely profound. Certainly anyone considering doing LSD should be understand that they are in for an extremely intense and potentially life-changing experience.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#92

Post by gepi79 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 6:53 AM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #87

gepi79 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms. I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms? Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a…

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is.

This is not true. Different people respond differently to different drugs. The experience also depends on the dose and the set and setting. Not all people are fine with hallucinations and psychedelic trips. Not all people are happy with a perfect set and setting. To promote psychedelics as possible solution for mental disorders (anxiety, depression,...) is absolutely irresponsible and even warned against by psychonauts. https://psychonautwiki.org/wiki/Set_and_setting

Besides, psilocybin is not addictive for most because it is not fun enough for most. But the risk of bad trips and long term disorders is real.

https://www.livescience.com/16287-mushrooms-alter-personalit... :

- But this is a strictly do-not-try-this-at-home experiment, MacLean cautioned. The participants in the study were under close supervision during their session with the drug. Psychological support and preparation helped keep bad trips to a minimum, but many participants still reported fear, anxiety and distress after taking psilocybin.

- MacLean said, ... that the risk of unsupervised usage outweighs any potential reward.

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/features/how-doctors-tr... :

- "This is serious medicine with a capital M," he says, "and if you don't watch yourself and you don't pay attention to the essential basics, you could be in for a very difficult time."

- "If we move forward and understand that these substances should only be used under optimal conditions," says Grob, "it will have a positive impact on an individual, family, collective and societal level."

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#93

Post by postr » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:03 AM UTC

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Sounds silly in retrospect, but I once made the very bad the decision of watching a horror film while on LSD. I only got a few minutes in before it occurred to me that my brain wasn't very much capable of recognizing the difference between film and reality.

I could almost feel the adrenaline pumping inside my brain. I felt the immediate urge to sit in the safe corner of my apartment, with a clear view of my surroundings. My brain was clearly anticipating an attacker. It felt primal. It took me a while to calm down.

What's really interesting is what proceeded to happen over the next few months. Basically, at a subconscious level, my apartment was marked. Especially the front door area which I remember being most afraid of - every time I'd walk by, I'd become scared, as if I anticipated somebody to jump at me. At other times, I'd catch myself looking around to make sure I'm alone. I had absolutely no way to control this - it's as if every fiber of my being KNEW I was in danger, even though I was consciously aware it was nonsense. I became acutely aware of how separate our conscious and unconscious decision-making is. At the beginning, I would sleep with the lights on. For a while I considered moving to a different apartment. Instead, with some effort, I've mostly trained those reactions away over a period of 2-3 months. I still feel a bit jumpier than usual when alone in the dark, but mostly back to normality.

This is one of the most valuable experiences of my life, but also one that I wouldn't recommend to anyone.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#94

Post by bfuller » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:06 AM UTC

lobster_johnson wrote: post #87

gepi79 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms. I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms? Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a…

>as I know nobody has ever come out of a shroom trip with their brains scrambled.

you would be wrong. if you are predisposed to psychosis shrooms can trigger that.

I get it that you prefer mushrooms. But most people actually handle LSD better than mushrooms. So the fact you trashed LSD is a little silly.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#95

Post by bfuller » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:07 AM UTC

gepi79 wrote: post #67

newnewpdro wrote: post #51

The world would be a better place if everyone ate magic mushrooms in the wilderness on a camping trip as part of outdoor ed. in school. If you've never experienced it, you probably won't understand.

I wish people would stop the unhealthy and irresponsible and dangerous life-destroying hype and promotion of psychedelics including cannabis. All medical experts warn against the use of drugs and psychedelics except as medical tools of medical experts. Drugs and psychedelics can trigger all kinds of long term mental disorders that even the best experts might not be able to heal. Medical science and psychology are sti…

Psychedelics should be a last resort, as you can trigger underlying conditions, I agree.

But microdosing LSD has saved lives pulling people out of suicidal depression. There's a reason its highly regarded, because for those of us that benefit, its literally a miracle.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#96

Post by atombender » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:07 AM UTC

gepi79 wrote: post #92

lobster_johnson wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's pretty clear from your comment that you don't know anything about magic mushrooms. I could understand your response if the parent were speaking about LSD or bath salts or something else that have been known to give people bad, destructive trips. But shrooms? Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. Adverse reactions are rare, and as far as I know nobody has ever come out of a…

Psilocybin is known as the gentlest and most enjoyable psychedelic there is. This is not true. Different people respond differently to different drugs. The experience also depends on the dose and the set and setting. Not all people are fine with hallucinations and psychedelic trips. Not all people are happy with a perfect set and setting. To promote psychedelics as possible solution for mental disorders (anxiety, dep…

Your livescience.com link basically argues the opposite, but you cherrypicked one person's cautionary, own-ass-covering advice to make a contrary argument. The article itself points out that people overwhelmingly come out of he experience with positive personality changes!

Also, nobody is arguing that irresponsible use of psilocybin here. The person you quoted is saying that unsupervised psilocybin use is potentially dangerous. You should be careful if you have a history of anxiety, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia or similar disorders. And it's always a good idea to do shrooms together with other, stable, experienced people.

This is a better source of information: https://tripsafe.org/shrooms-side-effects/

The fact that you brought up cannabis, of all things, the world's most popular recreational drug (after alcohol and tobacco), tells me that you are not quite informed.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#97

Post by ianai » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:12 AM UTC

heracles wrote: post #88

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

Can't you see it as a indication of the opposite of what we typically call God? That instead of there being an external entity outside our universe interacting with you, you talked to something God-like inside yourself. This might be what you share with every person in history that ever have received divine inspiration. That same experience motivated them. Just like we can share experience with other people when we a…

I understood you. It’s a neat concept.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#98

Post by bfuller » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:13 AM UTC

Jedi72 wrote: post #13

Im a stable, sane, not depressed or anything person. I once took LSD (mixed with other things aswell...) and had a trip during which I spoke to God, Satan and various other imaginary beings. It was not a fun experience - I'm a man of science, but the feeling/perception was so real, my entire world view was shattered. It stuck with me for months after. I've gone from someone who 100% believed in evolution and a materi…

This has everything to do with you personally and nothing to do with LSD.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#99

Post by wffurr » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:14 AM UTC

andrei_says_ wrote: post #49

tasty_freeze wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollan makes the point that he isn't advocating that people score some mushrooms or tabs of acid then charge ahead. He says what he did, and what was done back in the 50s and 60s before it became illegal, was to have an experienced therapist check his mental health, describe what was likely to happen, and give him guidance on how to deal with what he experienced. He then took the substance(s) and was guided by this p…

> He says what he did, and what was done back in the 50s and 60s before it became illegal, was to have an experienced therapist check his mental health, describe what was likely to happen, and give him guidance on how to deal with what he experienced. He then took the substance(s) and was guided by this professional while he had his experience. Then there was a debriefing where they went over what he experienced. I c…

That's the point. The fact that taking these substances under supervision is illegal is the crazy part.

Re: Michael Pollan reluctantly embraces the 'new science' of psychedelics

#100

Post by KozmoNau7 » Thu, May 17, 2018, 7:15 AM UTC

toomanybeersies wrote: post #63

Aldous Huxley, dying of terminal cancer, took LSD on his deathbed, and died while on his final trip (it was planned that way), although a relatively low dose of 100ug. It seems to me like it would be a good way to go, a good way to conquer the fear of the unknown after you die. In a related experience, once when I was on a bender, I took 3 tabs of lsd, along with a whole plethora of other substances. I actually thoug…

In short, you're not experiencing the universe. You're experiencing your own mind.