Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital • Hacker News Board

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#101

Post by mrob » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:20 PM UTC

delbel wrote: post #91

grok2 wrote: post #60

A little while back, there was this submission to hacker news that didn't get much traction/attention, but which was about a research study that seemed to suggest that Vitamin D deficiency was a symptom of an underlying problem and just supplementing with Vitamin D was not sufficient as a fix and that the underlying cause of the deficiency the study said could be inflammation related to bacterial infection. https://l…

I didn't know about this study or the post, but I have also brought this up before and downvoted to hell. Bacteria that can evade the immune system can eat up all your vitamin D and wreck havoc. The solution is to eat other beneficial bacteria that eat them or their food and balance things out. This bacteria is LAB pro-biotics you can find in the store. Along with that, eating fiber to feed the pro-biotics so they do…

>There's a GMO bacteria used as a pesticide

If you're thinking of Bacillus thuringiensis, it's usually bred conventionally, because that allows it to be used as a pesticide for organic certified foods.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#102

Post by pasabagi » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:23 PM UTC

jimnotgym wrote: post #97

pasabagi wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denial is rarely a complete thing. Most people will say they aren't 'that' depressed right up to being put in a clinic. People really overestimate the organizational capacity of somebody in deep depression. Getting a doctor's appointment, showing up, then talking honestly about your problems is really hard. It's doubly hard if you think you have alternatives. Getting medical help is a really big step. Taking St-John'…

I will try and answer both of your posts together if that is OK. 1) I have suffered from and lived with sufferers of depression for my whole life. It is rare for me to say so on a public forum, but there it is. 2) I have been in a dangerous place and sought medical help. I was prescribed drugs which had catastrophic side-effects on me, and which persisted for years after I went through the horrible withdrawal process…

Obviously you had a bad experience with anti-depressants - many people do. I have also had bad experiences with various drugs. The english mental health system is horrible, agreed.

However, I don't think reading articles, however scientific, is a substitute for five years of training to be a psychiatrist or psychologist - and if you don't think p-hacking is endemic in this space, I have a bridge to sell you.

I can't stop you doing what you are doing. But if you tell somebody who has cholera that 'drinking water' was an alternative to going to a doctor, and they died, you'd go to prison. If even one person takes your advice, against the scientific consensus that anti-depressants work, tries to 'hack' their depression with your 'alternatives', you'll be partially responsible for the outcome.

Ultimately, the question is: are you confident enough of your psychiatric/psychological credentials to offer advice about a life-threatening condition?

Because that is what you are doing.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#103

Post by julianj » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:42 PM UTC

delbel wrote: post #95

jseliger wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is interesting but I downvoted it for one reason: "Citation(s) needed."

if you were a professional or academic scholar requesting the citation, I feel that you would be entitled to that information. But to many people who aren't abuse this as some kind of sociopathic way of bullying people with contrarian information by downvoting, and I'm sick of it. It was a nice way to spark up a conversation a while ago but now its a toxic tool of sociopaths

I have felt this for a long time but have lacked the ability to put this feeling into words. Thank you for doing what I could not.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#104

Post by jimnotgym » Sat, May 05, 2018, 11:59 PM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #102

jimnotgym wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will try and answer both of your posts together if that is OK. 1) I have suffered from and lived with sufferers of depression for my whole life. It is rare for me to say so on a public forum, but there it is. 2) I have been in a dangerous place and sought medical help. I was prescribed drugs which had catastrophic side-effects on me, and which persisted for years after I went through the horrible withdrawal process…

Obviously you had a bad experience with anti-depressants - many people do. I have also had bad experiences with various drugs. The english mental health system is horrible, agreed. However, I don't think reading articles, however scientific, is a substitute for five years of training to be a psychiatrist or psychologist - and if you don't think p-hacking is endemic in this space, I have a bridge to sell you. I can't…

> However, I don't think reading articles, however scientific, is a substitute for five years of training to be a psychiatrist or psychologist

Why do you keep pushing this line? The page quite clearly says on line 4 and line 6 that you should talk to a doctor. It even suggests discussing the listed things with a doctor.

If a doctor prescribed me a statin to help with my cholesterol, then I went away and read up and found that reducing the amount of bacon I was eating would also help, then I went back and discussed that with my doctor, am I better or worse off?

If I delete my Github account right now does the information I linked to go away? In lots of cases I have linked to the discussion rather than the article, where the extraordinarily critical HN crowd have pulled the article apart, searched for p-hacking and other frauds and discussed any merits. Is that better or worse than the tabloid stories that abound on health? I don't see how more information about your condition could be a bad thing?

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#105

Post by jm__87 » Sun, May 06, 2018, 12:28 AM UTC

pasabagi wrote: post #102

jimnotgym wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will try and answer both of your posts together if that is OK. 1) I have suffered from and lived with sufferers of depression for my whole life. It is rare for me to say so on a public forum, but there it is. 2) I have been in a dangerous place and sought medical help. I was prescribed drugs which had catastrophic side-effects on me, and which persisted for years after I went through the horrible withdrawal process…

Obviously you had a bad experience with anti-depressants - many people do. I have also had bad experiences with various drugs. The english mental health system is horrible, agreed. However, I don't think reading articles, however scientific, is a substitute for five years of training to be a psychiatrist or psychologist - and if you don't think p-hacking is endemic in this space, I have a bridge to sell you. I can't…

I think the point here is everything should be on the table? Is there any advice here that is harmful?

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#106

Post by Strom » Sun, May 06, 2018, 1:25 AM UTC

internetman55 wrote: post #39

Is there any informed discussion of the value of reading articles like this versus just not and doing what your doctor says ?

That depends heavily on both your own and your doctor's knowledge/ability. If you're unsure if you can safely extract value from these articles then you should only listen to your doctor.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#107

Post by reaperducer » Sun, May 06, 2018, 1:55 AM UTC

oliwarner wrote: post #52

HN health posts tend to get posted without context and you'll get a pile of people [inadvertantly, I'm sure] pushing their supplement regime as a way to stave off clinical depression et al. This paper is NOT saying that low VitD causes psychiatric admission, just that patients may require supplements to bring them back to healthy levels. You get most of your vitamin D from skin exposure to sunlight so it's reasonable…

>You get most of your vitamin D from skin exposure to sunlight so it's reasonable to suggest that these people with psychiatric issues and low VitD are likely to be shut-ins.

As a point of interest, when I lived in an American southwest desert city, vitamin D deficiency was rampant. When doctors took new patients, the first thing they did was write a script for vitamin D, which the pharmacies were constantly out of, so people who cared enough just bought OTC supplements. Most people didn't care, though.

The widespread D problem was because they spend so much time inside, and the buildings were designed with few windows, or very small windows.

So, a different kind of shut-in. Societal shut-ins, if you will.

Also on a similar tangent, I remember a photo in Time magazine from the 80's showing children in schools in Siberia standing mostly-naked around quartz lights daily to get their D.

I think with all the discussion of skin cancer, aging, sun spots, etc... people have forgotten the health benefits of good ol' sunshine.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#108

Post by bipolar_throw » Sun, May 06, 2018, 2:17 AM UTC

Throwaway account here.

I started taking vitamin D supplement a few years ago. I believe it has helped improve my Bipolar disorder (less lows where I can't get out of bed). Added to my meds and I really think it helps but case study of one with wayyyyy too many variables.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#109

Post by tytytytytytytyt » Sun, May 06, 2018, 2:44 AM UTC

tree_of_item wrote: post #84

oliwarner wrote: post #52

HN health posts tend to get posted without context and you'll get a pile of people [inadvertantly, I'm sure] pushing their supplement regime as a way to stave off clinical depression et al. This paper is NOT saying that low VitD causes psychiatric admission, just that patients may require supplements to bring them back to healthy levels. You get most of your vitamin D from skin exposure to sunlight so it's reasonable…

> You get most of your vitamin D from skin exposure to sunlight Is this even true? How are you going to get enough sunlight while living in, say, the US Northeast, or not being white?

By following an Eskimo diet.

Re: Prevalence of vitamin D deficiency in adults admitted to psychiatric hospital

#110

Post by toasterlovin » Sun, May 06, 2018, 3:48 AM UTC

delbel wrote: post #95

jseliger wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment is interesting but I downvoted it for one reason: "Citation(s) needed."

if you were a professional or academic scholar requesting the citation, I feel that you would be entitled to that information. But to many people who aren't abuse this as some kind of sociopathic way of bullying people with contrarian information by downvoting, and I'm sick of it. It was a nice way to spark up a conversation a while ago but now its a toxic tool of sociopaths

FEIW, the need for supporting evidence for unusual positions, stances, opinions, etc. exists regardless of whether “Citation needed” is used in the manner you describe.