Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities • Hacker News Board

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#101

Post by stuaxo » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 9:01 AM UTC

candiodari wrote: post #97

yodon wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving out to the suburbs when you have kids is a tragedy? That’s some serious first world definition of tragedy.

I think they mean that blocking problems that would prevent the implementation of their favorite policy are the tragedies. Public transport does not work, and this is just one more reason why. Every few years the police feels the need to spend a month or two catching pickpockets (or worse) on public transport. Train stations in all the big cities are hotbeds of criminal activity. That is a major problem that is not,…

I don't recognise this version of public transport you talk about.

I've never had a car and moved place many times, yes it means hiring a man with a van, but my things wouldn't fit in a car anyway.

I haven't seen much crime in stations apart from fare dodging, yes there might be pickpockets, but probably not more than other places outside in London. You're pretty safe, there is good lighting and staffing and cameras everywhere.

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#102

Post by DrScump » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 9:04 AM UTC

plasticchris wrote: post #78

stmfreak wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer being stuck in traffic than sitting on the pissy seats of public transportation. Waiting in the rain for my connection downwind from the smokers. Standing on the train because some piss soaked bum is sprawled across two seats... there are many legitimate downsides to public transit. People make the choices that work best for each of them. For the majority, that means driving in a clean, private car.

fwiw caltrain is not like this at all used to ride next to a twitter guy who referred to it as the "premium" option...

Caltrain isn't completely immune to public transit foibles, but it's mostly hazard-free, primarily because people use it exclusively as transportation and not "a place to hang out outside of the elements". Fare evasion is actually checked for regularly, and it's enforced.

I always take Caltrain when I go directly to/from the ballpark, even though I have parking passes for all games (which almost always can be sold at a profit).

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#103

Post by DrScump » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 9:12 AM UTC

awalton wrote: post #34

ams6110 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a 50-person bus with 1 passenger aboard? That is a very common sight in my town. There are a few routes that are heavily used, but the rest of them are just huge vehicles very inefficiently transporting a couple of people and blocking lanes of traffic and frustrating drivers at the same time.

> What is a 50-person bus with 1 passenger aboard? A poorly designed bus route. But, that's not surprising giving the state of urban sprawl; it's quite a hard problem to design a route that maintains ridership, simply because everything that people need access to is so spread out and randomized that people will prefer cars/lyft and 15 minutes of travel time to taking three buses over 50 minutes and then walking the l…

"Bus agencies could do better if they were a bit more adaptable/flexible too - other countries have experimented with bus-on-demand, and having smaller buses ("shuttles") would help on lower demand routes"

Has that worked (financially) anywhere? This model was a catastrophic failure when tried in Santa Clara County ("Dial-a-ride").

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#104

Post by true_religion » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 9:19 AM UTC

mrep wrote: post #93

tmnvix wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that this might seem rational from an individual's perspective but to exclude your family from society in this way is a tragedy and does not seem like any kind of solution to me.

I agree that it is a tragedy and it is also a tragedy how much resources we devote towards computer/software security. There are tons of similar best practice inefficient solutions to society's problems in order to deal with the malicious actors because nobody has solved this problem and I doubt anyone ever will. Do you have an idea for how to stop people from acting maliciously? Considering how subjective that quest…

> Do you have an idea for how to stop people from acting maliciously?

Yes,cultural homogeneity results in lower overall levels of malicious actors and free riders.

However, in the USA the only way to get such homogeneity is to (a) wait a long time for communications and migration to turn soften differences or (b) create a culture out of whole cloth, and use propaganda to spread it to the young.

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#105

Post by jboles » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 10:04 AM UTC

DrScump wrote: post #103

awalton wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is a 50-person bus with 1 passenger aboard? A poorly designed bus route. But, that's not surprising giving the state of urban sprawl; it's quite a hard problem to design a route that maintains ridership, simply because everything that people need access to is so spread out and randomized that people will prefer cars/lyft and 15 minutes of travel time to taking three buses over 50 minutes and then walking the l…

"Bus agencies could do better if they were a bit more adaptable/flexible too - other countries have experimented with bus-on-demand, and having smaller buses ("shuttles") would help on lower demand routes" Has that worked (financially) anywhere? This model was a catastrophic failure when tried in Santa Clara County ("Dial-a-ride").

The list is long: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Share_taxi#Jitney

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#106

Post by lsc » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 10:05 AM UTC

DrScump wrote: post #100

lsc wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My desire is that we develop ways to make cities hospitable to carless families. That goal seems more remote now than it did in 2010. Eh, from where I stand (in silicon valley) being carless is way more practical now than in 2010; I mean, I don't have a child, so I'm not a carless family, but I've gotten rid of my car and more than half of my 'ride sharing' trips are in the actual 'ride sharing' mode where they can…

Own car: To work, to grocery store, to home = 3 trips. Your method: trip to pick you up, trip to drop you at work, trip to pick you up at work, trip to take you home, trip for grocery picker to store, trip for groceries to your home... there's six trips. The traffic burden you create is increased , not lessened.

except that most of those trips are pooled; the grocery picker (I use amazon fresh, but have used the Safeway delivery in the past, but the same idea applies to both... the insticart model may be different, but I haven't used them.) makes a bunch of deliveries in one trip. That should be lots more efficient than me driving to the store and back for just my groceries.

Same with taking one of the pool mode rideshares to or from work; they often pick up a few other people going the same direction (which, I hope, offsets the "drive to pick me up" issue

I mean, clearly if I'm not using the pool mode, (and I often don't in the mornings, when I'm late) then yeah, I'm creating more traffic (but using less parking) because they need to drive to pick me up... but in high density areas, the pickups are pretty fast; there's usually someone fairly nearby when I want them where I am.

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#107

Post by guitarbill » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 10:06 AM UTC

beguiledfoil wrote: post #18

bparsons wrote: post #16

Cars congest cities. Articles like this encourage policy makers to target users of ride sharing, while ignoring the obvious broader problem. If cities build appropriate multi modal transportation networks and restrict the amount of space allowed for vehicle traffic, people will walk, bike or take the train rather than drive. All three are preferable to being stuck in traffic.

Even Seattle is seeing per capita transit ridership drops, odd considering expansion of rail lines. In an urban environment the car is what turns transportation into a game of the prisoner's dilemma. From this point of view ride shares are just the latest way that America has managed to extend the game. My desire is that we develop ways to make cities hospitable to carless families. That goal seems more remote now th…

Seattle is especially bad in newer areas like SLU, where they could have made it pedestrian/bike friendly. Instead, they put in wide/American-style roads, car-focussed traffic lights (with short pedestrian crossing times that only trigger when you press a button, even on the busiest streets), and barely any new public transport. That, and every shitty construction site is happy to block the sidewalk, so good luck walking two blocks without having to cross over.

Anyway, transport-wise it looks and feels like any other American city, which is a shame. (I mean it's not LA-levels of bad, but that's not an achievement.)

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#108

Post by tmnvix » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 11:42 AM UTC

mrep wrote: post #93

tmnvix wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that this might seem rational from an individual's perspective but to exclude your family from society in this way is a tragedy and does not seem like any kind of solution to me.

I agree that it is a tragedy and it is also a tragedy how much resources we devote towards computer/software security. There are tons of similar best practice inefficient solutions to society's problems in order to deal with the malicious actors because nobody has solved this problem and I doubt anyone ever will. Do you have an idea for how to stop people from acting maliciously? Considering how subjective that quest…

Like with helicopter parenting, I think that by trying to avoid risk in this way you are giving up more than you are gaining - even though in isolation this might seem like the rational choice.

If everyone took your approach we would end up as a sharply segregated society where the public domain becomes the preserve of 'malicious actors' and those without the ability to avoid it. That would be a classic dystopia. These places exist. Seattle should not be one of them. Better to stand your ground in the public domain despite the risks. Your presence will make it a better and safer place for everyone.

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#109

Post by tmnvix » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 11:44 AM UTC

yodon wrote: post #92

tmnvix wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that this might seem rational from an individual's perspective but to exclude your family from society in this way is a tragedy and does not seem like any kind of solution to me.

Moving out to the suburbs when you have kids is a tragedy? That’s some serious first world definition of tragedy.

No. I mean that abandoning the public domain is a tragedy.

Re: Studies are increasingly clear: Uber, Lyft congest cities

#110

Post by mrep » Mon, Feb 26, 2018, 1:38 PM UTC

true_religion wrote: post #104

mrep wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that it is a tragedy and it is also a tragedy how much resources we devote towards computer/software security. There are tons of similar best practice inefficient solutions to society's problems in order to deal with the malicious actors because nobody has solved this problem and I doubt anyone ever will. Do you have an idea for how to stop people from acting maliciously? Considering how subjective that quest…

> Do you have an idea for how to stop people from acting maliciously? Yes,cultural homogeneity results in lower overall levels of malicious actors and free riders. However, in the USA the only way to get such homogeneity is to (a) wait a long time for communications and migration to turn soften differences or (b) create a culture out of whole cloth, and use propaganda to spread it to the young.

Oof, upvote because that might actually work but I feel like that is the type of idea that will get you damore'd [0] on the west cost.

[0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=16410740&goto=threads%...