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Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

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Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#101

Post by [deleted] »

cphillips wrote: post #99
geebee wrote: post #80

I feel somewhat ambivalent about this. I'm glad that Brown wants to eliminate student debt, and I'm glad that low income students at ivies often pay no tuition. However, this doesn't change their essential model, which is to enroll a very small number of undergrads[1], deny admission to the vast majority of applicants, and generally lean toward affluent students. Compare this with an elite public research university…

Brown (and most likely all other Ivies) is need-blind (except for international students). So, unless you think they are lying, your point doesn't stand on limiting low-income students. You point on size of college is an altogether different issue. "Beginning with the Class of 2007, Brown implemented its need-blind admission policy. Need-blind admission simply means that an applicant's ability to pay for their educat…

[deleted]

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#102

Post by [deleted] »

cphillips wrote: post #99
geebee wrote: post #80

I feel somewhat ambivalent about this. I'm glad that Brown wants to eliminate student debt, and I'm glad that low income students at ivies often pay no tuition. However, this doesn't change their essential model, which is to enroll a very small number of undergrads[1], deny admission to the vast majority of applicants, and generally lean toward affluent students. Compare this with an elite public research university…

Brown (and most likely all other Ivies) is need-blind (except for international students). So, unless you think they are lying, your point doesn't stand on limiting low-income students. You point on size of college is an altogether different issue. "Beginning with the Class of 2007, Brown implemented its need-blind admission policy. Need-blind admission simply means that an applicant's ability to pay for their educat…

[deleted]

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#103

Post by noitsnot »

ben_jones wrote: post #41
onwardly wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they still want people that can afford to pay $50k/year to pay it. Lowering tuition lowers it for everyone. If your parents make $300k+/year, then you'll still be paying full tuition. But as their income is lower, currently you'll get some need-based financial aid. The problem is that this aid is a combination of "scholarship" and "loans". The goal here is to remove the loan component. The problem still is th…

While the process sounds good in theory there is an ever increasing gap that people fall into between parents making too much money and parents not making enough. I'm bias because I fell right into the middle of the gap - my parents inherited an illiquid share of real estate that on paper is worth about a million dollars, in reality after taxes it yields maybe 40k/yr that my parents live off of (60+, no college). Bec…

The gap is real, but parents with a million dollar house who aren't making enough while on retirement? That's most parents except for that huge asset. You're not in the gap in my view.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#104

Post by CalChris »

ams6110 wrote: post #92
CalChris wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Revenue is easy. Anyone can bring in revenue. Uber brings in revenue. The more important question is is the athletic department as a whole even profitable? At Berkeley, the football coaches make $16.3M. http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/Cal-footba... The law school deans make $333,847. At the same time, Cal Athletics faces largest debt among all college programs. https://www1.salary.com/CA/Berkeley/De…

Most athletic departments fund not only the football coach's salary but the salaries of the coaches and staff for all the other "non-revenue" sports as well as all the scholarships. The big thing that has developed in the past decade are the conference TV deals such as the Big Ten Network. Schools make a LOT of money from that, as well as from other licensed merchandise, ticket sales, and donations. If Cal Athletics…

Yes, my alma mater is doing it wrong but the vast majority of athletic departments are also doing it wrong. Although I was a ‘tree’ guy when they spent the seed corn on the stadium upgrade, I do see the point of an elite sports program and ours overall is quite elite. And still Cal is doing it wrong.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#105

Post by CalChris »

ams6110 wrote: post #89
ktta wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often financial aid is given out to very needy students (don't even have anything as collateral for loan), and there's sometimes a quota.

There's no collateral on a student loan.

None is necessary since they are both Federally guaranteed and they can’t be discharged by bankruptcy (which is the epitome of stupidity). Indeed, that ‘bargain’ is why Brown is doing this thing.

No collateral is necessary for student debt since they can come after anything you or your cosigners have.

Someone will have to explain to me what is special about this debt that it gets this special treatment.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#106

Post by tanderson92 »

noitsnot wrote: post #103
ben_jones wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While the process sounds good in theory there is an ever increasing gap that people fall into between parents making too much money and parents not making enough. I'm bias because I fell right into the middle of the gap - my parents inherited an illiquid share of real estate that on paper is worth about a million dollars, in reality after taxes it yields maybe 40k/yr that my parents live off of (60+, no college). Bec…

The gap is real, but parents with a million dollar house who aren't making enough while on retirement? That's most parents except for that huge asset. You're not in the gap in my view.

The difference is that some assets (in retirement accounts) are protected from financial aid inspection and inherited real estate is not. If that seems unfair, it is because it is.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#107

Post by olalonde »

paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #54

Time for market disruption? How about free online MOOC that ends with a widely recognized (accredited) diploma. Lectures are free, same for notes. Exams are paid for. You learn on your own or in groups. With additional paid tutoring on request. Technology allows everyone to get MIT grade education for free.

Can't wait for this to happen, the whole system is so inefficient it hurts.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#108

Post by MikeTheGreat »

cphillips wrote: post #99
geebee wrote: post #80

I feel somewhat ambivalent about this. I'm glad that Brown wants to eliminate student debt, and I'm glad that low income students at ivies often pay no tuition. However, this doesn't change their essential model, which is to enroll a very small number of undergrads[1], deny admission to the vast majority of applicants, and generally lean toward affluent students. Compare this with an elite public research university…

Brown (and most likely all other Ivies) is need-blind (except for international students). So, unless you think they are lying, your point doesn't stand on limiting low-income students. You point on size of college is an altogether different issue. "Beginning with the Class of 2007, Brown implemented its need-blind admission policy. Need-blind admission simply means that an applicant's ability to pay for their educat…

I want to start by saying that it's awesome that Brown, Cornell, Yale, and whatever other Ivies are need-blind. That's awesome, and I applaud them for it.

That said, economic status and academic performance correlate closely. A college that's very selective will necessarily filter out a lot of lower-income kids purely because it's hard to do extra-curriculars if you need to work after school and/or if you can't afford them, it's hard to get good grades if you're worried about whether you get to eat this week, etc.

My point being that Brown can be both need blind and not have a lot of lower-income kids there.

Re: Brown University raising $120M to eliminate all student loans

#110

Post by olalonde »

fra wrote: post #85
paulus_magnus2 wrote: post #54

Time for market disruption? How about free online MOOC that ends with a widely recognized (accredited) diploma. Lectures are free, same for notes. Exams are paid for. You learn on your own or in groups. With additional paid tutoring on request. Technology allows everyone to get MIT grade education for free.

You assume, wrongly in my opinion, that the main value of a prestigious university is the classes that they provide. From my experience (n=1) there are great instructors to be found at many (most?) universities. Indeed you will likely get better bang for your buck at your state’s public universities. The value of an Ivy League education is in the ressources available to you (e.g. funding for entrepreneurship or to go…

Maybe but "funding for entrepreneurship" or "access to the network" is not where most of the tuition money is spent.
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