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How slot machines are designed to be addictive

theguardian.com

101–110 of 201 posts

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#101
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is definitely a machismo about being able to master the UK pub slot machines with all the features and tests of "skill".

When I used to throw tons of money at the things, what amazed and impressed my friends wasn't that I would regularly win money - I wouldn't, and I was always up front about how much I was pissing away - but just that I understood what the hell was going on. It felt like neither mastery nor machismo.

What did it feel like? Honest fatalism, a happy cynicism?

I'm thinking your experience may not be unique, perhaps most gambling addicts are fully aware what they are doing? Maybe it's a common thing with all addicts, or perhaps gambling as it's less, well, chemical allows the brain to see things clearer.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#102
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked with data analytics in problem gambling for ten years, your dismissal of the addictiveness of these games is either uninformed or rationalized, most likely both. Recent research in Sweden shows that some 75% of online casino turnover are from what can be loosely described as moderate risk gambling (PGSI3+) and approximately 50% from problem gambling (PGSI8+). Similarly about 25% of regular (monthly) pla…

Human psychology studies are a tricky thing, where everyone only focuses on data which matches their preconceived notions. I'm sure that some university group has researched the cost of fashion addiction, music addiction, car addiction, holiday addiction etc. yet no-one is talking about the social cost of fashion/collections/other vices people may have. There was a large Casino court case in Australia a couple of mon…

First, do you agree that there are experts in some fields? If yes, why the quotes on these experts? If these specific experts deserved the quotes, then, were they the right people to be called to testify in a court case?

Second, you've chosen a tricky country to set as an example: Australia has an extremely strong pokies (slot machines in there) lobby. There has been several cases of corruption linked to them, so I'd take the rulings with a grain of salt.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#103

Disclaimer: I design the machines and games for a living. 1) regarding near miss, with basic math knowledge you can easily calculate the odds of near miss. Eg. with 2 special symbols per 30 symbol reel, for a 3x5 reel game, you have a 1:5 chance of seeing the special symbol per reel, or once per spin for a 5 reel game. The odds of a 4 symbol near miss is (1:5)^4, which is 1:625, or once every 30 minutes. With a bank…

[deleted]

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About point number (4) I don't think anyone said you have psychologists on call. Slot machines have been around for hundreds of years. Obviously, someone has figured out how to best make them work. The industry clearly has the know-how to make addictive games that hook players in: if it didn't, then its machines would not be as addictive as they are. Unless we want to pretend the machines got so addictive by chance,…

I agree with you about the house always winning, and I also don't gamble, however you can consider the activity as a game like an arcade game where the actual playing and spending time costs money, and has value in its own right. I guess the economics is slightly more nuanced, just how you can find addictive computer games which also cost like world of Warcraft I guess

Good point, but the way I see it there are two parts to a gambling game: (a) the physical rewards (blinkenlights, twinkly noises etc) and (b) the monetary rewards.

If the physical rewards were enough of a draw in and of themselves, I think we could reasonably expect there to be a market for games that don't involve money. For instance, I could imagine smaller, cheaper slot machines sold directly to players, to take them home and feed them coins all day, just to see the pretty lights (I mean they could get their coins back at the end of the day).

The fact that there doesn't seem to be any serious interest in that sort of game machine tells me that the monetary rewards are the primary purpose of play.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#105

To make matters worse, after all this effort to hook players in with a promise of a win just around the corner, it seems that casinos often don't pay up when players win big. Instead, they blame jackpots on malfunctions. Three cases of this from Ars: https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/10/1-4-million-jack... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/06/sorry-maam-you-d... https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/…

This is reasonable when machines list a maximum reward of say 10,000$ and then it says has someone win 2000x that. After all, the players did not make the bet thinking such a payout was possible.

IMO, it is a sign the machines are not setup to follow the states rules. But, people are suing for the amount listed not trying to shut the casino down.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#106
post #94

How soul-destroying a job must it be to develop these games? Spending all day designing software to trick more vulnerable people into giving you their money?

I am sure people agree with you here and there will be plenty of people who find the casino industry distasteful but I would avoid projecting your own value set onto this.

For every person whose life has been ruined by gambling, there are many who are able to enjoy it responsibly. Same goes for any of the other classic vices such as tobacco or drinking, or even food. I am sure there are plenty of people who are comfortable distancing themselves with the responsibility of the impact these products have on users but take pride in their ability to improve upon the metrics that warrant success in their field.

If it were so soul-destroying, no one would do the job... (unless the pay was phenomenal)

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#107
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I used to throw tons of money at the things, what amazed and impressed my friends wasn't that I would regularly win money - I wouldn't, and I was always up front about how much I was pissing away - but just that I understood what the hell was going on. It felt like neither mastery nor machismo.

What did it feel like? Honest fatalism, a happy cynicism? I'm thinking your experience may not be unique, perhaps most gambling addicts are fully aware what they are doing? Maybe it's a common thing with all addicts, or perhaps gambling as it's less, well, chemical allows the brain to see things clearer.

It changed over the years.

From, like, 92-00 I was sinking way more money than I could properly afford into them, and often hated the experience. Losing felt absolutely horrible, but winning felt fantastic. Most of my friends would gamble too, but I took it that much further. I'd put enough money for the drinks I wanted in one pocket, and the other pocket was my gambling funds. It was very fatalistic, I knew that I was virtually guaranteed to go home drunk, skint, and angry with myself. Often I'd swear blind en route that if I emptied my pockets today, then that was it, this shit had to stop - and of course, those would be the days when I'd take out a jackpot or two, buy a big round of celebratory drinks, etc. But I got into pretty significant debt over the whole time, taking out credit cards and maxing each one out (on cash withdrawals!!) within a couple of months.

From 00-03 I paid off my debts, was still gambling a lot but could afford it. I don't recall much negative emotion, it was mostly just "this is what I do when I'm in the pub". I'd win some, lose some, it didn't really matter. I liked "knowing" that "hey, it's turned red, that means it's about to pay". If I wasn't playing, I'd watch those who were and enjoy spotting where they were turning down obvious money, not collecting the "good" features, etc, and hope I could jump on after they're done and take their cash. This was the peak of the period I referred to in the previous post, when colleagues would ask how on earth I knew what was going on, and could I help them spend their £1-3 as a bit of fun.

My gf at the time wasn't such a fan and, in fact, bet me that I couldn't go a year without playing - which was a stroke of genius. Obviously I took the bet, and won. For the last few weeks leading up to the anniversary I was kinda salivating at the idea of spending a couple of hours posting money into a fruity again, and when I did ... meh. Nothing. I lost, I didn't care, and the hold was basically broken.

Since then, it certainly helps that, at least in London, fruit machines have all but disappeared from most pubs, and as jackpots have gone up the fun has gone out of them anyway because they seem to pay out respectable wins much more seldom. I'll still throw £20 or £40 in one if I'm in a pub on me lonesome and waiting for a train, say, and I enjoy playing online but it doesn't consume me and, in fact, I tend to make a profit most months - I find it very easy to limit both my downside and the upside. Back in the day, quite often a win would just mean I could play longer, whereas these days I'm like "cool, I'm £50 up, I'll take that and get on with something else".

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#108
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having worked with data analytics in problem gambling for ten years, your dismissal of the addictiveness of these games is either uninformed or rationalized, most likely both. Recent research in Sweden shows that some 75% of online casino turnover are from what can be loosely described as moderate risk gambling (PGSI3+) and approximately 50% from problem gambling (PGSI8+). Similarly about 25% of regular (monthly) pla…

Human psychology studies are a tricky thing, where everyone only focuses on data which matches their preconceived notions. I'm sure that some university group has researched the cost of fashion addiction, music addiction, car addiction, holiday addiction etc. yet no-one is talking about the social cost of fashion/collections/other vices people may have. There was a large Casino court case in Australia a couple of mon…

Look you may not want to admit it, but you make your money from praying on and promoting addiction. You are a drug dealer and directly ruin people's lives.

Denial has a strong psychological basis, but if you want to look back on your life without massive regrets leave the industry.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#109
post #94

How soul-destroying a job must it be to develop these games? Spending all day designing software to trick more vulnerable people into giving you their money?

>trick more vulnerable people into giving you their money

I don't really have an issue with casinos as such, I'm sure it can be fun for a holiday. What I do mind is all the smaller gaming kiosks that started popping up when Denmark opened up it's gambling/betting marked (because EU required it that it not be a government monopoly).

There's so many small crappy looking kiosks that now offers gambling on slot machines, but it's not people like myself that pops in on a Friday afternoon on the way home from work to spend the equivalent of $10 - $20 to relax. It's societies weakest members that banging on the door to be the first at the slots and won't leave until their asked to leave at the end of the evening. The people sitting at the slots are the people who can afford it the least. It's absolutely terrible that this is legal.

Re: How slot machines are designed to be addictive

#110
post #82

Video games in the Free2Play niche inherited a lot of slot machine and casino gamification mechanics. Now even proper video games of the triple-A full prize segment $70 come with "loot boxes", helix points, DLCs, trading cards, always-online that unnerves the greater audience but a few (rich) noobs (so called "whales") get sucked/addicted in and pay tausends of dollars for virtual goods additionally to the full prize…

Video game industry is pushing these tactics to new heights with loot box gamification, even better the target consumers are young, mentally underdeveloped children who are much easier to addict to gambling. It's beyond evil and should be regulated immediately, China/Japan have had regulations about this for years already. America leading the way in letting businesses exploit underage consumers, encouraging addictions to gambling for profit.
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