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Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

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Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#101

Post by slantyyz »

pavs wrote: post #80
jscore wrote: post #74

Haven't seen the interview but I'll give my $0.02 here. I use WordPress and just started using Thesis, I think it's a well designed product, albeit a bit simple, but does that it supposed to do really well. It's a nice theme, and very easy to configure either from the WP UI or via the filters/actions. It definitely extends WordPress nicely. It's by far my favorite theme and I plan on using it on my projects (and I mu…

I hope thesis is not the only commercial theme you ever used. Themeforest, one of the premium wordpress theme market, has ~745 high quality themes with some publishers making 6 figures and all of those themes are GPL (to the best of my knowledge), I think this is also true for WooThemes. The argument that making it GPL will break business is a very weak one. There is nothing, absolutely zero barrier, for someone to c…

In all fairness, WooThemes was not GPL from the get go. They went GPL a little later, on their own. I think their blog post announcing that said that they planned to go GPL when they felt like it was good for them to do so.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#102

Post by tjogin »

rick888 wrote: post #94
tjogin wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that Matt went into it not wanting to sue, and is now considering it. That's a change of direction, if not opinion.

"It seems to me that Matt went into it not wanting to sue" He still hasn't changed one bit on his opinion of plugins/themes and the GPL.

He wasn't really offered a compelling argument to do that, so that's no surprise.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#103

Post by rick888 »

tjogin wrote: post #102
rick888 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It seems to me that Matt went into it not wanting to sue" He still hasn't changed one bit on his opinion of plugins/themes and the GPL.

He wasn't really offered a compelling argument to do that, so that's no surprise.

"He still hasn't changed one bit on his opinion of plugins/themes and the GPL."

Well, matt wasn't offering a compelling argument for chris to release under the GPL either, so I guess they are even.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#104

Post by maepaulino »

michaeltwofish wrote: post #55
pavs wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. See Also: Drupal.

Note that Drupal specifically excludes Javascript, images, Flash, from being GPL'd. http://drupal.org/licensing/faq#q7

That's what Matt's saying too. Only the PHP files in the theme are GPL.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#105

Post by tjogin »

rick888 wrote: post #103
tjogin wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't really offered a compelling argument to do that, so that's no surprise.

"He still hasn't changed one bit on his opinion of plugins/themes and the GPL." Well, matt wasn't offering a compelling argument for chris to release under the GPL either, so I guess they are even.

Complying with the license to avoid breaking the law and risking a lawsuit is usually a very compelling argument for a business person. But not this one, that much is clear.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#106

Post by AmberShah »

photomatt wrote: post #75
joshkaufman wrote: post #69

I've been spending a lot of time today wondering why Matt cares so much about what license Chris uses - it seems like no real harm is being done to either party here, but both parties are digging in their heels so strongly I find it hard to believe it's purely a philosophical difference. I just had a thought, and I'd like to sanity check it. I don't know Matt or Chris, but I use both Wordpress and Thesis every day, s…

We've never incorporated anyone's code without their full participation and there's no code in Thesis I would want anywhere near core anyway. Thesis is a triumph of marketing, not technical competence. (In fact it relies on people not being able to question its incredulous claims about structure and SEO.) The few cool ideas it has were done in other themes first anyway. On a tech level, WooThemes is doing far more in…

I find that believable because Thesis was a waste of money. I'm more comfortable picking and choosing which plugins and themes I want to use and getting into the code if I have to. Thesis never came me anything faster than I could do with the those things alone. Their most compelling argument to me was the structure/SEO claims which were never well explained. None of my sites, Thesis or otherwise, ever did well from an SEO standpoint, so in that respect I have no preference.

To me it seems like they just got popular because they were promoted on Copyblogger with a huge readership and all of it's partners/affiliates. You can't go to a site about copywriting/SEO/online marketing/Wordpress/blogging without getting hit over the head about how "Thesis is the greatest thing ever".

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#108

Post by rick888 »

tjogin wrote: post #105
rick888 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"He still hasn't changed one bit on his opinion of plugins/themes and the GPL." Well, matt wasn't offering a compelling argument for chris to release under the GPL either, so I guess they are even.

Complying with the license to avoid breaking the law and risking a lawsuit is usually a very compelling argument for a business person. But not this one, that much is clear.

"Complying with the license to avoid breaking the law and risking a lawsuit is usually a very compelling argument for a business person. But not this one, that much is clear."

I love all the posts here about "breaking the law". I never see this much support when a content owner doesn't want their stuff shared on the torrent networks for free. Funny how politics plays into the rights and wrongs of society.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#109

Post by rick888 »

icey wrote: post #64
rick888 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"WordPress' position on what parts must be GPLed is quite clear, and explicitly excludes CSS and media. The PHP portions of the themes are the parts they argue must be GPLed." If the portions he used only contain function calls, I wouldn't consider it derivative work.

The Southern Freedom Law Network does consider that derivative: http://wordpress.org/news/2009/07/themes-are-gpl-too/ (I linked this in my other reply to you as well. Sorry for the repetition, but I think it was worth mentioning in both places.)

"(I linked this in my other reply to you as well. Sorry for the repetition, but I think it was worth mentioning in both places.)"

Well, the RIAA considers copyright infringement "theft". It doesn't make either of these true.

Re: Would WordPress Sue The Maker Of Thesis WordPress Theme? - Mixergy Interview

#110

Post by dwwoelfel »

elbrodeur wrote: post #2

Chris Pearson's defense is thin at best: Switching to GPL wouldn't affect my business at all! It just rubs me the wrong way! Additionally, he comes across as a real jerk. EDIT: After listening to the whole thing I am appalled by Chris Pearson's lack of understanding about licensing and his offensive attitude. Matt Mullenweg deserves an award for being so gracious and patient.

That's not his defense. His defense is that the GPL is legally unenforceable in his particular case.

What you call his defense is really his justification for fighting so hard. And his justification is more than "it just rubs me the wrong way." His sense of ownership is being violated.

As for Matt Mullenweg's graciousness, see this comment where he snipes Pearson's work:

"We've never incorporated anyone's code without their full participation and there's no code in Thesis I would want anywhere near core anyway. Thesis is a triumph of marketing, not technical competence. (In fact it relies on people not being able to question its incredulous claims about structure and SEO.) The few cool ideas it has were done in other themes first anyway. On a tech level, WooThemes is doing far more interesting work. (And they have been involved in core development.)" http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1517073

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