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Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

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Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#101
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Changing the locks and sorting it out later" is incredibly illegal. Your "advice" is useless.

It's not illegal to keep out trespassers. Maybe one wouldn't change the locks on the first day, but after seeing one group of carousing teenagers with whom one had no contractual relationship replaced by a different such group, it would be pretty safe to shut the whole thing down.

My experience is from California, but I've worked for a property management company. You'd be in no way safe in changing the locks, unless you gave the tenants on the lease new keys as you were changing them.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't trespassing. They had the permission of the tenants. It was violation of lease but that is not a crime.

If I give you permission to walk into the Y Combinator offices, you're still trespassing. The tenants had no ability to grant legally meaningful permission.

If you work at Y Combinator, then yes, you can give people permission to walk into the offices.

If you don't work at YC, then you can't. But that's not what happened here. People who legally rented an apartment invited guests to live there. Nobody trespassed. But the people who sublet the apartment probably violated the terms of the lease, and caused the landlord to be in violation of Miami Beach rental laws.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#103
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Certainly, and I think I can sum up why you and I have different experiences in another quote: > In the U.K. Your government didn't bend to the "but they're just shaaaaaaring so being licensed is haaaaard " bullshit that many governments here did. (Austin, Texas tried to pull it off and the Legislature of the State of Texas smacked them, hard.)…

Just to add another pain point, in Orlando drivers hire out immigrants to drive for them. I've had many rides where the person driving speaks no English and doesn't match the profile pic despite the car plates matching and having the lyft/Uber app open with my details. Many complaints to Lyft and Uber and nothing has been done so far as I can tell. And as you'd expect those drivers don't obey the laws at all. Last dr…

Cabs do this all the time, since the dawn of time

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#104
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm interested to hear more about how Uber behaviour is inconsiderate. Certainly, and I think I can sum up why you and I have different experiences in another quote: > In the U.K. Your government didn't bend to the "but they're just shaaaaaaring so being licensed is haaaaard " bullshit that many governments here did. (Austin, Texas tried to pull it off and the Legislature of the State of Texas smacked them, hard.)…

Just to add another pain point, in Orlando drivers hire out immigrants to drive for them. I've had many rides where the person driving speaks no English and doesn't match the profile pic despite the car plates matching and having the lyft/Uber app open with my details. Many complaints to Lyft and Uber and nothing has been done so far as I can tell. And as you'd expect those drivers don't obey the laws at all. Last dr…

Recently Uber will randomly select drivers to submit a picture before the app will let the go online. So it seems someone somewhere is trying now, shrug.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine it was a newspaper classified ad in your newspaper that someone has paid for all week and someone else phoned up asking you not to reprint it tomorrow. Or the noticeboard in Publix

Imagine somebody placed a classified add saying: "Free wheels. Find them on the car in the driveway at 123 Main St. Also help yourself to the backyard furniture." And you live at 123 Main St.?

or placed an ad for a stolen car

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=unknowingly+bought+stolen+car

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#106

Man, the more I read stories like this about AirBnB the more I want them to fail. People hate regulations until they get screwed, and suddenly they understand that sometimes regulations exist for a reason. Beyond that though, what I despise is that AirBnB seems to reap all the profits and accept none of the blame. They fought to avoid paying taxes and whined when they lost, they refuse to take down listings when pres…

How come Airbnb doesn't require proof of ownership? I mean, few rental contracts even allow subletting without owner approval.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#107
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was struck by how both examples in the article were property owners living out of state who never even met their tenants? One of them thought she was renting to a family with two kids, but it was actually some scammers. Meeting your renters in-person once would have cleared that up. These people are buying a property, renting it to cover the mortgage, and planning to sell it at a profit. All without doing any…

>Meeting your renters in-person once would have cleared that up. so hire a few actors?

Would the actors be willing to share their photo ids and accept liability?

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#108
post #103
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add another pain point, in Orlando drivers hire out immigrants to drive for them. I've had many rides where the person driving speaks no English and doesn't match the profile pic despite the car plates matching and having the lyft/Uber app open with my details. Many complaints to Lyft and Uber and nothing has been done so far as I can tell. And as you'd expect those drivers don't obey the laws at all. Last dr…

Cabs do this all the time, since the dawn of time

The same drivers for Uber are the same cabbies. It's all the same people, running the same tricks. Uber didn't disrupt anything, just moved the platform and added a new middleman.

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not illegal to keep out trespassers. Maybe one wouldn't change the locks on the first day, but after seeing one group of carousing teenagers with whom one had no contractual relationship replaced by a different such group, it would be pretty safe to shut the whole thing down.

In most jurisdictions, housing courts are heavily, heavily, heavily biased towards tenants over landlords. Landlords can't change the locks without a valid eviction order. Doing so is likely to delay their eventual success in court - if the scammers can focus the judge on an illegal lock-out, that's going to be the first issue decided.

Sure, but in the meantime they aren't generating gigantic AirBnB fines. It seems that in this case the locks had already been changed to some sort of remote electronic device by the "tenants" themselves?

Re: Homeowners faced an Airbnb nightmare as renters left them facing huge fines

#110
I actually came to the thread expecting a lot of AirBnB hate, but didn't expect ALL of it focused on them. I've used AirBnB many times around the world as a traveller, and have had generally good to great experiences. But I can understand all the arguments from the other side of how their management or inaction results in this type of bad behavior from the public. It's definitely something I think they need to address before it reaches a critical mass, and stories like this and their response certainly do not help.

HOWEVER, I'm surprised people here just glossed over Vacayo and their founder's roles in this, which is my bigger gripe. Clearly, based on the 2 different home owners interviewed in this story, Vacayo was simply renting out property and converting it into short term rental property without the owner's knowledge or consent. Then posting them on the AirBnB platform, and likely funneling any inquirers to the same listing onto the Vacayo platform. Then of course, claiming it as their 'traction and revenue'.

There's so much illegal, unethical behavior here starting from turning an owner's property into short term rental, going so far as to install new automated locks and cameras. Doing this against the property owner's intent and knowledge, not to mention the city laws. Then funneling another platform's users back to it's own platform. Then taking this arguably shady 'traction' and applying for and getting into 500 startup's program. And I'm sure, if this article didn't make it into the mainstream press that 500 startup would have continued with them, or maybe they are and just not claiming publicly anymore. In any case, 500 startup shares some blame in encouraging or at least willfully ignoring this type of behavior in the startups they fund.

( And yes, yes, I'm aware of AirBnB's own funneling of people from craigslist onto their platform... )

I guess I'm disheartened by this trend of straight up questionable or unethical behavior being passed along as 'hustle'. It's a VERY fine line and I'll be the first to admit and acknowledge some form of 'hustle' is required to get your business traction and running. But some of these cases with Theranos, Vacayo, etc etc really cross way over the line in my view. And it seems some of the major actors in the startup community (YC, 500) are just sort of shrugging their shoulders to it.

I realize startup stories can get romanticized in their retellings over time, and that even our standard heroes like Apple(Jobs) and Microsoft(Gates) have their own questionable tactics in their ascent to the top. But there has to be a line drawn, and as a community we should be a bit more discerning and direct about what's not acceptable lest we get over run by grifters and snake oil salesmen.

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