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Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

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101–110 of 121 posts

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#101
post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

This is just a microcosm of the greater political climate created in the US over the past 40 or so years. Business interests completely control every single legislative decision made. We're all just along for the ride now.

In a sense, we did vote for it. We elected Trump, who spoke out against NN (https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/53260835850816716...) and who had obvious pro-business leanings.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ideally, yes. But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality. Most people don't have the luxury of choosing their ISP. It sounds like you have a beef with how the US is currently handling corporate personhood, not necessarily free speech.

> But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality. The problem is not hosting, the problem is not slow speed, the problem is your audience being pulled from you without any legal due process. From listener's perspective, you are denied audience of the person you want to hear, because YouTube decided they didn't like what is being said and heard. I…

Without net neutrality, you might not have an audience in the first place. I'm telling you, it's as big of an issue as Google/Facebook's algorithms and their account/video takedowns. It would become even more impossibly difficult to compete with their services. The problem is their monopolization, and a lack of net neutrality would kill their competition.

This is a bit of a tangent, but it sounds like you're wanting a social media platform that has:

1) Popularity (essential for any social platform)

2) Unbiased search functionality (Probably needs to be open source, and will frustrate users with how it underperforms at finding relevant results in comparison to search engines that are closed source and rely on user tracking)

3) Incapability to take down user files and accounts (Tons of legal issues here. Probably needs to be decentralized somehow, or hosted somewhere with lax information laws, otherwise the platform itself would be taken down by the server's location's government)

Edit: And as for your analogy, no. It's like renting a paper notebook, which the seller then takes back because you violated their terms of use by drawing lolicon in it.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#103

I think on the plus side, if net neutrality is killed, and ISPs start gouging the major providers (e.g. netflix, amazon, google/youtube) then it'll give huge financial incentive for those content providers to break the ISP monopoly. Google started to do so before (fiber), but the political follow-through wasn't cost effective. There is a tipping point where it is.

how does that help anything if i have to choose a service-specific last mile?

maybe i guess in the short term we pay off google by agreeing to let them monitor all the traffic and hope that keeps them sufficiently well fed they don't feel like offering preferential handling to google services and partners.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#104
post #44

It's unfair to ISPs (some of it is their own doing like introducing "unlimited data" purely based on the assumption that most users wouldn't use their data at the same time, which companies like Google and Netflix capitalized on by building high bandwidth services on top of it) but since Google and Netflix are capable of manipulating consent of internet users and will not let FCC rollback "net neutrality", ISPs will…

I just want to point out that this view isn't necessarily wrong, but it's one-sided and reads like talking points from an ISP lobbyist. You can view Google and Netflix as "capitalizing on ISPs". You could also view it as the ISPs customers demanding more bandwidth from their ISP that they pay. ISPs like to talk about their "innovations", but what does that even mean? Personally, I want them to provide me with a high…

I am against NN but even from my point of view the innovation argument is 50% duplicitous.

I don't expect big monopoly ISPs to implement these changes with content providers in a way that doesn't disrupt end users' access. But I still don't think we should have universally outlaw this for all ISPs for all time, present and future, including nice little ones answerable to the people of a city or region. The other duplicity is that this is not an ``innovation''. Please Mr. Lobbist. Governments have been taxing economic transactions at both endpoints (buyer and seller) for millenia and the evil tax man has always triaged the taxed at some level where it is no longer economical to collect.

If elected democrats (when NN was introduced) really wanted to help the consumer they would have done something to break up the monopoly ISPs, not this moral signaling rule says Google et. al. are less monopolistic than you so were going to pick their side. If republicans actually favored free markets they would follow up ending NN by doing the same.

> Sometimes the government has to intervene in a market (like anti-trust laws) in order to create a fair market for companies to compete. And that's OK and every free-market conservative should recognize that fact and agree that it's a good idea if they just think about it for a while.

No thinking required in this case, opposing government sponsored monopolies is obvious and shrinking those that must exist to the smallest possible size is too. Conservative federalism. Some conservatives have favorable views of private monopolies though (stating this as a fact, not a personal opinion) and presumably they have thought about it.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#105
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can it be still called a democracy then?

It is not a democracy, was never a democracy, was not designed to be a democracy. It could be considered a "prelude to a democracy if it really wishes to be and is willing to work hard to get there". The U.S. was invented at a time of monarchy. Three things it innovated were polyarchy (a ruling class of many rather than one, a king), a written constitution (power comes from people who grant a revocable mandate of aut…

Uh huh.

So every news outlet give Trump's a snowball's chance in hell of winning and Hillary Clinton is a member of the political establishment, but there's no democracy; plebian votes don't count.

People may it may not reach" correct" conclusions, but America is most certainly democratic.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is not a private entity, it is a public corporation with share holders. We hold government with highest demands for equality, we hold private individuals and fully owned businesses with most freedom to discriminate. We hold public corporations somewhere in between. >Google's house Sure. Nobody cared when things were being said about Egypt's Mubarak. But say something that some Google executives don't like, you…

Using youtube is a privileged, not a right. Google can censor because its user's agree to it as part of their terms of service.

And Comcast will make their ability to slow down or speed up packets a part of their terms of service. done.

Glad you agree that Comcast has that right, just like Google.

NN doesn't matter if Google can pay God with paying customers, who pay each month for gsuite products, got their account cancelled because Google didn't like what they posted. I would take slow lane over that every day.

Capitalism when I like it, socialism when I don't. That is hypocritical.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#107
post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

> I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion

From where I'm standing, I don't see a huge opposition against this move apart from a vocal minority. I believe it's due to the fact that at this stage the arguments are academic, and as such highly debatable. If they kill net neutrality and people see substantive impacts on their wallets or service, that will be the time to take up arms. At this point in time, I don't see it happening.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality. The problem is not hosting, the problem is not slow speed, the problem is your audience being pulled from you without any legal due process. From listener's perspective, you are denied audience of the person you want to hear, because YouTube decided they didn't like what is being said and heard. I…

Without net neutrality, you might not have an audience in the first place. I'm telling you, it's as big of an issue as Google/Facebook's algorithms and their account/video takedowns. It would become even more impossibly difficult to compete with their services. The problem is their monopolization, and a lack of net neutrality would kill their competition. This is a bit of a tangent, but it sounds like you're wanting…

>Without net neutrality, you might not have an audience in the first place.

DNS can be, and was, taken away without any due legal process. That was my wake up call. Google cloud is registering domains and has that control over it.

When it comes to dire situations, if my ISP does funny business, I can choose another ISP e.g. a mobile connection.

No different than taking another road to go to the bank. My account and money in there is still safe.

If the bank take away my account without due legal process, does it matter if the roads to get to the bank were traffic/pothole/toll free?

For a YouTube content creator, who spent years building brand and audience, one fine day to wake up and have videos demonetized and/or account suspended is like bank terminating your account without giving you a dime from your account. With bank, you can get government/FDIC engaged, with YouTube, they are the Gods of that universe.

>And as for your analogy, no. It's like renting a paper notebook,

Paying account holders of g-suite apps from google, faced account termination with no cause, no access to videos/files/emails. This is digital violence and much bigger threat that has materialized, and is far greater than NN.

If terms of service are enough to allow Google doing what it does, why can't Comcast do the same with their terms of service?

I didn't know it was that easy to do. Don't tell Comcast, please. They would be delighted to hear that terms of service is all it took to convince you to override NN.

You are renting their cable and ability to send traffic over their infrastructure, aren't you? How is cable infrastructure renting different than DNS/Video-site/email renting?

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#109
post #3

I'm all for everyone commenting so at least it's well known how far this FCC is going against public opinion, and encourage everyone to make their voices heard. But, and I hate to be the cynic here, does anyone really believe that even if all 323 million Americans commented in opposition to killing net neutrality, that Ajit Pai would relent? It's all but guaranteed he's going to do this. The only question is when, no…

Root of the problem was the creation of this power center, FCC, to begin with. Once created, it was given that it was going to be abused.

The powers that are enforcing ISP monopolies, and are against municipal broadband, are part of the problem.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#110
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Net Neutrality is the idea that ISP cannot target only specific addresses/services when they throttle your connection.

This idea is the problem with net neutrality. The reason people support net neutrality is that ISPs are monopolies even more so than Google, Facebook, etc and we understand that monopolies are unfair, corrupt, renters, etc. Therefore it easy to be blinded into supporting rules that purport to punish ISPs, even if the rule itself is illogical and loaded for unintended consequences. Reasonable people can oppose Net Neu…

Internet traffic changes hands between ISPs and backbone carriers before reaching destination.

What if every carrier of traffic that your traffic rides on has different prioritization agreements?

If someone from Malaysia accesses your site, you would have to have agreement in place for the entire route. Or think other way, anyone can start extorting money from site owners at any point in time.

It's bad for you as a end customer.

It's like the toll booth on the road charges you extra if you are going to the bank to do a withdrawal.

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