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Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

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Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#91

Post by prophesi »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #87
prophesi wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And with this response, it sounds like you agree with everyone in this comment thread.

I don't want Comcast looking inside my packets. I don't want Google looking inside my videos. Deal?

Ideally, yes. But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality. Most people don't have the luxury of choosing their ISP.

It sounds like you have a beef with how the US is currently handling corporate personhood, not necessarily free speech.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#92

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

outsidetheparty wrote: post #89
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not let Comcast decide if the video being uploaded to YouTube has a reference to an terrorist organization and then stop the upload? Why is Google a better judge of what is terrorist content than Comcast? >I'm thinking the problem you had with these services might have been your own fault, judging by your approach here. Right. Those pesky packet senders themselves must be the problem because of which Comcast want…

> Why is Google a better judge of what is terrorist content than Comcast? Google only gets to decide what you can do on google websites. Without net neutrality, Comcast, in its de facto monopoly position, gets to decide what you do on -all- websites.

Google has monopoly in terms of YouTube.

Instead of Comcast, I can use Verizon 4G.

Comcast, Verizon, may slow me down but YouTube just simply bans people for saying things that they don't like.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#93

Post by jethro_tell »

0xfeba wrote: post #50
ShabbosGoy wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'll be able to afford it, just be prepared to have a throttled, asymmetric upload speed to YouTube.

And when ISPs eventually resort to requiring you insert a root certificate to use the internet at all, your ISP will judge you.

Don't worry about that, I'll use a vpn to get to someone else's internet and that ISP can judge me.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#94

Post by devopsproject »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #77
devopsproject wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Comcast shouldn't decide what travels on their wires, then why should Google get to decide what the Youtube video says? Comcast doesn't get to decide for the same reason the water company doesn't decide what I use my water for. And you are free to say what you want in my house but you'd be thrown out pretty quickly if I didn't like what you had to say. Your house is no different. And Google's house is no differe…

Google is not a private entity, it is a public corporation with share holders. We hold government with highest demands for equality, we hold private individuals and fully owned businesses with most freedom to discriminate. We hold public corporations somewhere in between. >Google's house Sure. Nobody cared when things were being said about Egypt's Mubarak. But say something that some Google executives don't like, you…

Using youtube is a privileged, not a right. Google can censor because its user's agree to it as part of their terms of service.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#95

Post by outsidetheparty »

AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #92
outsidetheparty wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is Google a better judge of what is terrorist content than Comcast? Google only gets to decide what you can do on google websites. Without net neutrality, Comcast, in its de facto monopoly position, gets to decide what you do on -all- websites.

Google has monopoly in terms of YouTube. Instead of Comcast, I can use Verizon 4G. Comcast, Verizon, may slow me down but YouTube just simply bans people for saying things that they don't like.

>Google has monopoly in terms of YouTube.

And I have a monopoly in terms of my living room, and have as much right to control what happens in my space as google does in theirs. Other living rooms, and other websites, can similarly set their own policies.

Yes, there's a point beyond which a single company can become so large and pervasive that it shades into monopoly, and antitrust measures become necessary. Whether Google is at that point or not is debatable, but ISPs certainly are. Congratulations on being in the minority of Americans that has more than one viable choice for broadband, I guess.

In any case, whatever your feelings about YouTube, this hardly constitutes an argument that therefore net neutrality is unnecessary -- in comments elsewhere you've made clear that you do in fact support net neutrality, so I'm really not clear what this contrarian posturing is aimed at.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#96

Post by bobwaycott »

etplayer wrote: post #26
aphextron wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just a microcosm of the greater political climate created in the US over the past 40 or so years. Business interests completely control every single legislative decision made. We're all just along for the ride now.

There's an interesting essay about democracy in America (well, there are hundreds if not thousands probably) but what's unique is that it's a criticism levelled against the idea of democratic pluralism, and from where it emerges - the 'tolerance' of the democracy, the idea that rather than the individual action expounded by the classical liberals (for all their faults) there is now a system in which representative vo…

Since you mentioned him, anyone interested in this would do themselves a favor by reading Marcuse’s One-Dimensional Man. I’d imagine Marcuse’s essay draws on similar themes as the book.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#97

Post by AmIFirstToThink »

prophesi wrote: post #91
AmIFirstToThink wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want Comcast looking inside my packets. I don't want Google looking inside my videos. Deal?

Ideally, yes. But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality. Most people don't have the luxury of choosing their ISP. It sounds like you have a beef with how the US is currently handling corporate personhood, not necessarily free speech.

> But you can just host your videos yourself instead of with Google, which may be difficult to do without Net Neutrality.

The problem is not hosting, the problem is not slow speed, the problem is your audience being pulled from you without any legal due process. From listener's perspective, you are denied audience of the person you want to hear, because YouTube decided they didn't like what is being said and heard.

I find that more suffocating than an ISP slowing down my packets.

Google services were taken away, including youtube, gmail, google docs from paying accounts that Google didn't like. That's like Mead coming into your house and taking away the paper notebook they sold to you a week ago, because they don't like what you write in it.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#98

Post by alexandercrohde »

I think on the plus side, if net neutrality is killed, and ISPs start gouging the major providers (e.g. netflix, amazon, google/youtube) then it'll give huge financial incentive for those content providers to break the ISP monopoly.

Google started to do so before (fiber), but the political follow-through wasn't cost effective. There is a tipping point where it is.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#99

Post by bobwaycott »

pas wrote: post #37
etplayer wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an interesting essay about democracy in America (well, there are hundreds if not thousands probably) but what's unique is that it's a criticism levelled against the idea of democratic pluralism, and from where it emerges - the 'tolerance' of the democracy, the idea that rather than the individual action expounded by the classical liberals (for all their faults) there is now a system in which representative vo…

Do you maybe care for a tl;dr? I see, that it's not long (124 small form pages), but I'm very interested in what do you [or others] think of the essence of the essays, what are the insights that it gives to the reader. What was unexpected? What was expected? I also see that it's from 1968. How has it aged?

1968 was a particularly seminal year for political thought and action. There’s such a wealth of writings and histories to draw upon— Kurlansky’s 1968 provides an easily digested history, and the writings of The Situationist International, particularly Debord’s Society and the Spectacle, provide a great look at thought currents that drove some of the more tumultuous scenes of that year (and decade). Marcuse’s One-Dimensional Man (1964) fits squarely within the current of cultural critique that fueled the decade. I’d say a great many of the writings age eerily well—they’re often still poignant and relevant to issues we deal with today.

Re: Today is the last chance to comment on the proposal to kill net neutrality

#100

Post by etplayer »

bobwaycott wrote: post #99
pas wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you maybe care for a tl;dr? I see, that it's not long (124 small form pages), but I'm very interested in what do you [or others] think of the essence of the essays, what are the insights that it gives to the reader. What was unexpected? What was expected? I also see that it's from 1968. How has it aged?

1968 was a particularly seminal year for political thought and action. There’s such a wealth of writings and histories to draw upon— Kurlansky’s 1968 provides an easily digested history, and the writings of The Situationist International, particularly Debord’s Society and the Spectacle , provide a great look at thought currents that drove some of the more tumultuous scenes of that year (and decade). Marcuse’s One-Dim…

The unfortunate part about many works of political thought, particularly I think from German philosophy is that you need to have a significant amount of prerequisite knowledge, and this has been my case with the Frankfurt School in particular. I simply haven't had the time to do the background reading, so the texts are a little mystifying to me. Take for example The Dialectic of Enlightenment which is so very packed and dense that it reads like poetry to me, and what was accomplished in the first 20 pages therein could have been accomplished in a whole book by any authors other than Adorno and Horkheimer.

I have similar trouble with Society of the Spectacle, though I managed to find help getting through it. Some are more approachable though, like Marcuse's shorter essays, Marx's non-Capital economic works and Erich Fromm's Escape from Freedom. Edit: and of course Slavoj Zizek, though he is known to simplify and reduce concepts until the reader only gets a "kinda yeah" idea of what's being talked about.

Sometimes I really do wonder if the wealth of distracting information presented to me, so easy to grab in a capitalist economy has dulled my brain, or if I even had that brain to use in the first place.

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