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Startups should not use React

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101–110 of 176 posts

Re: Startups should not use React

#101
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

I also think this whole situation is overblown and edge cases are constructed as world-end scenarios.

Re: Startups should not use React

#102
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

_You_ should stop, immediately. Attempting to silence an issue because people are not experts on the issue is beyond immoral.

Please reflect on how you are hurting everyone, not helping.

Re: Startups should not use React

#103
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

Nerds will stop talking about things they don't know the day where: - other people will stop saying bullshits about computing; - nerds will stop learning new things by trials and error. None of those will ever happen, so make peace with the fact it will happen more and more.

I would be more charitable if it were clearer the author even read the patent grant to begin with, or understood the basic principles of what software patents even are.

The reason I'm saying "nerd" is that it's clear he has some expert knowledge about some things but apparently no grasp of the fact that this does not mean he has expert knowledge about all things.

Actual lawyers have come out on the patent grant and how it's basically harmless and pointless. It doesn't even require an actual lawyer to understand this. It just requires not being ignorant about intellectual property law.

The only valid argument against React is open source purism, which is why the Apache Software Foundation has banned it. They're not concerned about people suing people, they're concerned that it doesn't mix well with projects released under a pure Apache license. That argument is valid.

Every other argument boils down to "I don't understand the difference between patents and copyright". Even when the author shows a glimpse of self-awareness by saying "maybe Preact isn't safe either" he goes on to recommend other libraries as if they were 100% certified patent free.

Saying "I don't understand this, please explain" is okay. Saying "this is my expert opinion on something I don't understand and you should take this as advice" only spreads FUD.

Want to know whether you are at risk of being sued over software patents? Here's a simple checklist:

1) Are you using or writing source code?

If you answered "yes", congratulations, you're at risk of being sued over software patents.

Re: Startups should not use React

#104

What makes the PATENTS file legally binding? If I install React via NPM/Yarn, or even as a dependency of another project, I will not see this file. LICENSE is a pretty common convention and you could argue I should seek out this file in every one of my dependencies' dependencies - but how would I know to look for PATENTS? Are all statements in the code base legally binding? Could they be hidden in a source file somew…

If you didn't have the patent grant, then the default position would be that Facebook could take legal action against you if your use of React infringed any relevant patent they hold, whether you had sued them first or not. Ignoring (wilfully or otherwise) the PATENTS file doesn't make you any better off.

And it's existence doesn't make me any worse off? It only grants patents that I wouldn't by default have?

Re: Startups should not use React

#105
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

_You_ should stop, immediately. Attempting to silence an issue because people are not experts on the issue is beyond immoral. Please reflect on how you are hurting everyone, not helping.

There isn't an issue. The issue is software patents.

What's hurting people is self-proclaimed experts writing authoritative blog posts about what technologies people should chose and presenting it as if it were legal advice.

This entire drama is a 100% repeat of what pops up on almost a monthly basis because some random developer finds out about Facebook's open source patent grant and decides he has an opinion without even understanding the basic underlying concepts.

There are legitimate issues worth discussing, especially around the notion of open source purism (i.e. whether React should migrate to the Apache license to make it more compatible). But instead of having these discussions we get ridiculous unfounded opinion pieces by yet another "dude with an opinion" who didn't even bother validating his basic premises.

Re: Startups should not use React

#106
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

_You_ should stop, immediately. Attempting to silence an issue because people are not experts on the issue is beyond immoral. Please reflect on how you are hurting everyone, not helping.

"Beyond immoral" seems to me somewhere between excessive and totally wrongheaded.

Bad advice has consequences and bad legal advice often doubly so. The law is nuanced, convoluted and often unintuitive. People really are better off going to an expert!

Re: Startups should not use React

#107
I wonder if Facebook's claims that they are doing this in order to make patents useless would have legal standing. In other words, if they become "evil" about this patent clause at some point in the future and try to enforce this in the bad ways that people are imagining might happen, then doesn't Facebook's clearly and publicly stated intentions hurt any claim they would make which goes against those intentions?

Re: Startups should not use React

#108
post #87

Nerds shouldn't write opinion pieces about subject domains they don't understand. Seriously, stop this. Sometimes you just need to admit you have no idea what you're talking about and shut up. The author honestly thinks using Preact or Inferno could protect them from patent lawsuits. Oh, wait, maybe "Facebook holds any software patents on the Virtual DOM or the React APIs" so better use Vue and Cycle. Unless you actu…

Are you a patent attorney?

Re: Startups should not use React

#109
Aside from the validity of the article's claims about patents (see my other tirades about that) I'm not sure the point even makes sense.

React, the library, is at its core a glorified templating system. It provides plenty of escape hatches that make migration as well as inclusion of foreign UI components and libraries a breeze. It's stupidly simple to migrate away from.

If you are a high valuation startup looking to get acquired for your technology (rather than acquihired) I find it extremely unlikely your valuation hinges on your frontend code. And even if it does I find it extremely unlikely your frontend is tied so closely to React you won't be able to spend, say, 1MM replacing React with Vue or what have you (maybe at the cost of a little pizzazz).

If your frontend is animation-heavy, that likely doesn't live in React land. If your frontend is mostly static, it should be trivial to replace React as well.

If your startup is valuable, being sued over some frontend library is probably the least of your concerns. If the company looking to acquire you has enough cash in the bank to sue Facebook, they have far more than enough cash in the bank to replace React.

Re: Startups should not use React

#110

Can the title be generalized? Like don't use anything from FB?

This is true, all of Facebook's projects have the same PATENTS file. The title is the most clickbaity though, which is the intention of the piece.

Yarn, RocksDB and ZStandard does not.
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