Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#101

Post by foepys » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:59 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #62

petard wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

on 1) Recent touch-based CC terminals are really fast, and often don't require a PIN if the amount is less than 10€. I've stopped using cash since with these terminals CC are faster than paying in cash.

Android/Apple Pay (using NFC) is even faster from my experience. On top of that, the merchant never gets your CC data, so it's much more secure. It's still not widespread, but I make sure to use it whenever I get the chance.

Is this really true for Android? I know Apple hides your CC number but I'm unsure about Android.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#102

Post by samastur » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:59 PM UTC

intsunny wrote: post #65

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

> 1) CC is slow While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the norm.

Years ago I collected all change for 6 months without spending any. Afterwards I counted all to see how much of each type of coin I have collected during this time. The idea was to see if it is worth bothering collecting all coins or is there are a cut-off for me as I dislike having carrying really thick and heavy wallet. It turned out that for my pattern of cash use collecting coins bellow 10 cents really wasn't worth it.

A few years ago I visited Berlin again and tried to leave few cents in local supermarket. It was the only time while being there that I can remember people giving me unfriendly looks. Cashier was also visibly unhappy.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#103

Post by tylershuster » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:00 PM UTC

codegeek wrote: post #94

_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a German a.) I mostly pay cash because it's faster b.) some shops that can afford it only have cash payments to save on CC costs Not because of inflation or because something happend 100y ago.

As an american, I find it strange that cash is faster. Most people who pay cash need to wait to get the change back unless they know the total beforehand and happen to have exact change. In the US, credit card machines are very fast even the chip enabled ones. Cash workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount - You look in your wallet/purse - You spend time counting exact change if you do have it - If not, you take…

*Credit card workflow: - Cashier tells you the total amount

- You look in your wallet/purse

- You swipe card/insert in chip reader

- You avoid making eye contact while the transaction is processed

- (optional) The card reader fails and requests reinsertion. Repeat previous two steps

- Done

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#104

Post by ant6n » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:00 PM UTC

jurgenwerk wrote: post #53

I thought it was the other way around - that the reason German people pay cash is simply because shops and bars refuse to support credit cards. Whenever I visit Berlin I'm so frustrated because I have to plan my spending ahead and make sure I have enough cash in my pocket before I go buy anything.

Just keep a couple hundred in your pocket, like everybody else and their grandma.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#105

Post by k__ » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:00 PM UTC

overcast wrote: post #28

distances wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Normal person doesn't carry around wads of cash during their normal day. From the article: > On average, wallets in Germany hold nearly twice as much cash—about $123 worth Not worth a mugging in a Western country that doesn't leave its citizens starving.

$123 is still a lot of money. Pickpockets aren't roaming gangs of starving thieves.

I don't know why, but we don't have many pickpockets here in Germany.

Probable reasons:

We don't have that much poor people here.

The few that are, get social aid from the public/country.

The few that aren't happy with the amount of money they get, can collect bottles, which give you 0,25€ per bottle. Few hours of bottle collecting in a big city is easy money on the side.

So most poor people here can make 10-20€ a day on the side legally.

Food is really cheap in Germany, so people don't have to carry around much money. Most of the time I only have below 50€ on me and only on bigger travels in the country-side I take more.

So I think there is simply no reason to risk getting caught stealing an amount of money you can easily make legally.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#106

Post by Raphmedia » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:01 PM UTC

ollie87 wrote: post #38

revelation wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are paying much more in transaction fees. In the EU, transaction fees are capped at <<1% so there are no silly cash-back programs.

In the UK Amex offer a 5% cashback card right now. It's not very long term and drops to 1% after a while but hey, they exist in Europe.

You can get up to 2% - 2.5% easily but that's with annual fees or points instead of direct cashback.

I'm alright with 1% in direct cash without any fees. That's not a lot but hey, it's beer money!

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#107

Post by egeozcan » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:01 PM UTC

BartSaM wrote: post #61

egeozcan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit card is pretty equivalent to cash, though. When my friends and family from my hometown (Istanbul) visit me the first time, they are usually quite shocked that most shops here do not accept credit cards at all. In Turkey (a place I call micro-USA), many credit cards automatically divide the payments for some transactions to 3+ months, whereas here in Germany, there's always some bureaucracy involved, even if you…

Not really. Debit cards are debit cards, not cash. You are comparing CC to DC as far as I can tell, but they are completely different products. There is a huge difference between having currency in your hand or use a medium to access money held by the private organization that can go bankrupt (and this happens much more often than, for example, governments with their currencies).

There is a distinction only if you mean holding all your cash in your own safe, when you say "cash". You will need to get a bank account anyway as transactions of a certain kind and size (like getting your monthly wage and buying a car) need to go through a bank.

There is zero practical difference if you withdraw from an ATM every other day or more often, so you can pay cash.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#108

Post by discombobulate » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:01 PM UTC

killercup wrote: post #36

discombobulate wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you learn about the inflation @ school? In the UK we weren't taught about the Weimar Republic's hyperinflation (in education up to 16 y/o). My friend who did history @ a more advanced level was, however.

Yes, I learned about the Weimarer Republik and it's economic issues in school in Germany. (I guess it was in 8th or 9th grade and that history class was mandatory.)

Looks like the Bitcoin laws are v favourable in DE. You can pay taxes in BTC(!) & BTC is a unit of account[0]. That makes sense if the memory of WR hyperinflation is written to the citizens' mind.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country...

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#109

Post by Semaphor » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:01 PM UTC

romanovcode wrote: post #68

intsunny wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1) CC is slow While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the norm.

Also, almost every store accept touch-pay method where you just touch your CC with the terminal and it is payed without entering pin or providing signature. Only works if the amount is less then 25 EUR but still it is much faster then cash.

> Only works if the amount is less then 25 EUR but still it is much faster then cash.

For my card (N26) I can still use the feature but I'll have to enter my pin. Still faster than sticking it into the slot.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#110

Post by ChemicalWarfare » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 3:01 PM UTC

joezydeco wrote: post #39

" German aversion to mortgage debt is part of the reason why the country has some of the lowest homeownership rates in the developed world. " That's not just because of an aversion to debt. German Banks require a much larger down payment for their mortgages. Usually 30% or more. Banks will also look at the physical age of the borrower. They will not hand out 20-30 year loans to someone in their 60s.

In the US you are protected by the Equal Credit Opportunity Act so the bank can't turn you away based on your age. That said though - you do need to show sufficient income to qualify.