Why Germans pay cash for almost everything • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#61

Post by BartSaM » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

egeozcan wrote: post #54

mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

Debit card is pretty equivalent to cash, though. When my friends and family from my hometown (Istanbul) visit me the first time, they are usually quite shocked that most shops here do not accept credit cards at all. In Turkey (a place I call micro-USA), many credit cards automatically divide the payments for some transactions to 3+ months, whereas here in Germany, there's always some bureaucracy involved, even if you…

Not really. Debit cards are debit cards, not cash. You are comparing CC to DC as far as I can tell, but they are completely different products. There is a huge difference between having currency in your hand or use a medium to access money held by the private organization that can go bankrupt (and this happens much more often than, for example, governments with their currencies).

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#62

Post by Cyph0n » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

petard wrote: post #45

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

on 1) Recent touch-based CC terminals are really fast, and often don't require a PIN if the amount is less than 10€. I've stopped using cash since with these terminals CC are faster than paying in cash.

Android/Apple Pay (using NFC) is even faster from my experience. On top of that, the merchant never gets your CC data, so it's much more secure. It's still not widespread, but I make sure to use it whenever I get the chance.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#63

Post by dspillett » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

laumars wrote: post #18

mtmail wrote: post #2

According to https://www.cashforless.de/ec_cash_info/Fakten_zur_Kartenzah... methods for payments in stores 2011 was 57% cash, 5.3% credit card, 33% debit card ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_cash ). > "of course, [the Germans] attitudes toward currency must owe something to Germany’s tumultuous monetary history. During the Weimar-era hyperinflation that peaked in 1923 [...]" > "the German tendency to sett…

Your economy is much more stable than mine in the UK yet anecdotally I've observed we use cards to pay for everything. Even silly little things that only cost a couple of £. In fact it is rare that I ever carry cash. The same is true for a fair number of my friends and family as well.

Same here, though I think a lot more recently than a few years ago because of the growing ubiquity of contactless options which are very convenient for those small payments. Is that payment option as common in those countries at this point?

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#64

Post by simonh » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:41 PM UTC

cocoa19 wrote: post #13

In America, I would prefer to use a debit card or cash, but many credit card issuers offer 1%-3% cash back, meaning, they give back 1%-3% of the purchases you make. That amount adds up over time.

The more you spend, the more you save!

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#65

Post by intsunny » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:42 PM UTC

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

> 1) CC is slow

While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the norm.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#66

Post by revelation » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

Raphmedia wrote: post #49

revelation wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because you are paying much more in transaction fees. In the EU, transaction fees are capped at <<1% so there are no silly cash-back programs.

(Canada) As far as I know there are no transaction fees on credit cards. That's one of the reasons to stop using debit and use credit. The only fees are on the merchant (1.5%). Example : https://www.desjardins.com/ca/personal/loans-credit/credit-c... with no transaction fees (or monthly fees) along with 1% cashback.

Right, merchants pay the transaction fees and then in turn charge you, maybe minus a bit for what they save on cash handling. There is no free lunch.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#67

Post by MrBuddyCasino » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

petard wrote: post #45

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

on 1) Recent touch-based CC terminals are really fast, and often don't require a PIN if the amount is less than 10€. I've stopped using cash since with these terminals CC are faster than paying in cash.

Same here. The limit is 25€, very convenient.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#68

Post by romanovcode » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:44 PM UTC

intsunny wrote: post #65

m_mueller wrote: post #33

As a Swiss German I think the currency stability argument is moot. Swiss Frank is one of the most stable currencies available and we still have a similar attitude to cash as Germans. IMO it's mainly due to the following reasons: 1) CC is slow, at least in Switzerland. Like in Germany, efficiency is baked into the culture - people hate to wait on someone paying his chocolate bar with credit card. It's also not rare fo…

> 1) CC is slow While the CC may or may not be slow. In the 5+ months I've now been living in Germany, I've noticed that people are very keen to pay with exact change if they can dig it up. This is an even slower process, but also seems to be the norm.

Also, almost every store accept touch-pay method where you just touch your CC with the terminal and it is payed without entering pin or providing signature.

Only works if the amount is less then 25 EUR but still it is much faster then cash.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#69

Post by k__ » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:45 PM UTC

jupp0r wrote: post #52

As a German, I think ot's always intersting to get an outsiders perspective. The article strikes me as absurd, though. There is a deep caution against technology here, especially if it's foreign technology. There were numerous attempts by German banks to reinvent the wheel with incompatible payment systems (Geldkarte, ...) none of which could be used for online payment. All of them failed. I would also counter the ef…

But I have the feeling credit cards are getting more mainstream lately.

When I moved to Stuttgart 10 years ago I only could pay with EC card at supermarkets, now I can pay with credit card.

With the RFIDs they even got much faster, I often don't have to enter a PIN or give a signature, just wave my credit card over the terminal and be done with it.

Also I can withdraw money from all ATMs of all banks without any fees.

Re: Why Germans pay cash for almost everything

#70

Post by gehwartzen » Tue, Aug 08, 2017, 2:46 PM UTC

BartSaM wrote: post #61

egeozcan wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Debit card is pretty equivalent to cash, though. When my friends and family from my hometown (Istanbul) visit me the first time, they are usually quite shocked that most shops here do not accept credit cards at all. In Turkey (a place I call micro-USA), many credit cards automatically divide the payments for some transactions to 3+ months, whereas here in Germany, there's always some bureaucracy involved, even if you…

Not really. Debit cards are debit cards, not cash. You are comparing CC to DC as far as I can tell, but they are completely different products. There is a huge difference between having currency in your hand or use a medium to access money held by the private organization that can go bankrupt (and this happens much more often than, for example, governments with their currencies).

When paying with cash you are also only exposed to the risk of loosing what you have on hand. A debit card is a bit more akin to handing over the key to the vault with a contractual agreement as to how much can be taken.