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Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

bicycletimesmag.com

101–110 of 146 posts

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#101

Anecdotal I know however my wife only learnt to cycle properly this year. She is (rightly) terrified of riding on the road. If we had a better dedicated cycle road network (not paths but actual bicycle dedicated roads) she would be able to use it as a mode of transport. She has expressed interest however the network, while pretty good in Singapore (the park connector network is a good safe cycling option), is not con…

As someone who didn't bike as a child and won't bike on a road, I suspect that there isn't just about anywhere one can commute on a bike and totally avoid roads with cars on them. Including places like Amsterdam or other cities with a lot of dedicated lanes.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#102
post #48

I'm a biker in Boston; I cycle 5 miles to work and 5 miles home on a daily basis. I think the city is doing an amazing job with what they are given but so many of the roads are just too narrow for dedicated bike lanes. Most streets have "sharrows" which is great but honestly what it comes down to is a lack of understanding on how to share the road. I'm constantly honked and shouted at for commanding full use of the d…

It is pretty frustrating to be forced to go 10 MPH on a 30 MPH road. The roads also aren't designed for traffic to go 20 MPH slower than it ought to be, traffic starts to build up, causing more delays and frustration. I think we should be more accommodating of bikers, but asking them to share the road and be treated the same as cars is not the answer.

I think "frustrating" is the key word here. My subjective impression is that in the US drivers hate slowing down for bikes more than they hate slowing down for something else, like a car parking or a garbage truck. I think the perception that bikes are dangerous and slow down traffic exceeds the reality. It's about culture, the feeling that bikes don't belong in the road and shouldn't be accommodated in any way.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#103
post #66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have more sympathy for your position if auto drivers didn't seem to think they owned the road, margins, turn lanes and basically anything else that isn't a building. Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."

Okay, so why doesn't it work? You can complain about drivers all you like, but fundamentally car traffic and bike traffic are incompatible. You can't expect a driver traveling at 30 MPH on a 30 MPH road to suddenly and calmly accept that they are now traveling 10 MPH because of the guy in front of them. Swap the biker for a driver going 20 MPH under the speed limit and you're looking at a road rage situation. Sharing…

Add dedicated bike lanes and reduce car lanes. Now cars can sit in traffic more and go 10mph all of the time. Problem solved.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#104
post #66
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd have more sympathy for your position if auto drivers didn't seem to think they owned the road, margins, turn lanes and basically anything else that isn't a building. Shared space doesn't mean "shared with other auto drivers only."

Okay, so why doesn't it work? You can complain about drivers all you like, but fundamentally car traffic and bike traffic are incompatible. You can't expect a driver traveling at 30 MPH on a 30 MPH road to suddenly and calmly accept that they are now traveling 10 MPH because of the guy in front of them. Swap the biker for a driver going 20 MPH under the speed limit and you're looking at a road rage situation. Sharing…

Must be so difficult for them sitting down in a temperature controlled environment with audio entertainment burning massive amounts of non-renewable energy while taking up much more than their own width in space in an already cramped urban environment. I'm really feeling for the driver here. It's definitely the cyclist causing all the congestion in the first place.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#105

This doesn't really prove anything. My observations from Vancouver where a lot of time and money has been spent on bike lanes over the last few years: (I'm a non car owner, mostly pedestrian) - Pilot projects are not representative of actual long term use. When Burrard bridge lost a footpath to a temporary cycle lane, as a regular pedestrian commuter I saw a brief spike in cycle traffic but then a big drop off again.…

You don't cite a single source for any of these propositions. Frequently sit unused? Brief spikes and big dropoffs? How do you know? I'll bet your local department of transportation is conducting traffic counts though. I know mine does. "poorly thought out physically separated bike lines made intersections more dangerous"? You really need a cite on that because this study--conducted in Canada--says the opposite: http…

The original article is also entirely free of statistics or sources which was kind of my point. My comments were intended as a counterpoint to the unsupported assertion in the article that the increased cycle traffic observed in a two week trial would translate to a sustained increase and to the unspoken assumption that increased cycle traffic is clearly and obviously a good thing and worth the costs and negative impacts on other road users.

The dangers of cycling itself are pretty well known I thought, it is far more dangerous than driving, e.g. http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-39856219

I don't know of any figures comparing the relative risk to pedestrians of cyclists vs cars. I would expect that pedestrians are less likely to be killed if hit by a bike than a car but I would also guess that adjusted for relative miles traveled you are more likely to be hit by a bike as a pedestrian than a car. Certainly as a pedestrian in Vancouver I am more concerned about bikes than cars due to the silence and lack of respect for the rules of the road I mentioned.

If the changes made here were based on solid research, I never saw it presented to the public. It was just 'Cycling is great! And green! Yay cycling!' and PR shots of the mayor on a bike to justify the money spent and disruption to other road users caused.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#106
post #100
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually take the bus most places, I only drive once or twice a week, to the grocery store or so. I have no real skin in this game. In my experience, and in the OP's experience, "share the road" is a dumb, dangerous solution that leaves everyone unhappy. Bikers should refuse to put up with it. Demand real lanes.

The vast majority of advocacy groups do demand real lanes. The thing, I want to commute to work today. Do I just stay home and yell at politicians until a lane is built? Or do I legally use the existing roadways?

I'm sorry, I don't have an answer for you. I'm just frustrated that all of these threads end up tilting at the "damn drivers!!!!" windmill instead of blaming the actual problem, which is trying to combine car and bike traffic, which cannot be done on most US roads as currently designed.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is solved in the Netherlands, pretty much universally, by making the cars coming in from the side wait for the bike lane as well: | C | -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ---- Cycles r ----------------------------------- s --------- divider | | -----------------------------------Δ Δ Δ--------- Cars ------------------------------------------------- So if there's a bike lane, it counts as part of the car road…

This is how it's done in my area of the US, but I can tell you American drivers almost universally ignore where you're supposed to stop at a T junction, especially when turning right. It's maddening, multiple times I've had to leave the bike lane into traffic to get around a vehicle that isn't where it's supposed to be. I've never seen anyone get pulled over for this either because cycling isn't recognized as a "real…

Vehicles turning right is a big problem in the Netherlands as well. Not so much that they block intersections, but that bikes going straight have priority over the vehicle turning right, bikes take priority and then get in an accident. It doesn't matter who was right if you are dead.

In my experience, separate bike lanes are great for long stretches of road without intersections. Also quite safe on intersections with traffic lights if the bikes have their own dedicated time slot. (That's not always the case)

But when bikes going straight are encouraged to pass right turning vehicles on the right, it becomes a serious risk.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#108
Interesting. For the cyclists out there, would you pay out of pocket for a bi-directional elevated bike/walk-run track, with access from every street intersection, Japanese-style underground bike garages and automatically-cleaning showers/toilets at public transit intersections? If so, how much? I would, at $0.25-0.50 per mile, $0.25 per hour storage, and $2 per use of showers. I don't know if that would pencil out even in heavy cyclist commuter traffic, though.

I envision a high-tech track that uses redox batteries around its foundations, replaceable solar panels around the sides, is very brightly-lit, uses every 10 meters PTZ lenses on fiber optics leading back to a centralized, multiplexed bank of 2K and 4K video cameras backed by a deep-learning vision system, and easily-accessible emergency boxes every 20 meters to put female customers at ease. Emergency boxes vend bike repair kits (tire, chain, hex wrench, etc.), vend first aid kits, have an omnidirectional microphone listening for calls for aid, and of course a Big Red Button. Water is captured, filtered and stored for a cleaning robot to use later to maintain the track, solar panels, and awnings. Clear awnings automatically come out of housings, then raise and lower to shield from excessively-hot sun and inclement weather. Cleaning robot runs along a high-speed rail hanging on outside of track, multi-purposed to perform simpler replacement-style maintenance duties (replace vending supplies, replace awning, etc.).

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#109
post #70
post #10

This in Milan, Italy three weeks ago: https://www.wired.it/lifestyle/mobilita/2017/06/01/milano-pi... It's on a narrow bridge quite dangerous for cyclists as cars tend to cut the turn to the left. After years of asking somebody decided to help themselves.

I'm a bit confused there, though. The signage clearly marks this as a road you're not allowed to enter from that side, regardless of vehicle and forbidden for pedestrians. The guerilla bike lane thus is not supported by the existing signage and if behaviour prior to this matched what the lane now codifies, then it's worrisome as well. As a cyclist, I'm all for making cycling safer, but breaking road laws to achieve t…

I'm not familiar with Italian road signs but I'd interpret that sign to mean the exact opposite: pedestrians only.

Re: Pop-up bike lanes show that demand exists

#110
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> i milanesi hanno percorso in media 18,6 miglia > in bici per andare al lavoro... > velocità media a Milano 14,8 miglia all’ora "The Milanese cyclist averages 18.7 miles per day to go to work... at an average speed of 14.8 mph". Is my translation okay? That seems improbable [time & distance, not speed]: the _average_ Milanese cyclo-commuter takes over an hour each way? Currently 36C/97F in Milan. Or is this per week…

The average speed is kinda fast but not insane, especially if most of the ride is on a stretch without many intersections (which you'd expect to be true of a 9 mile ride). I average around 15 mph in a mostly flat area where I stop every few blocks. TBF I'm probably riding a bit more aggressively than a typical Milanese bike commuter. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the average American bike commuter averages 15 mph…

I can add something about Milan that could explain those data. Milan has some water channels going at least halfway into the city. Some bicycle roads follow the channels and they don't have many intersections. Some 10 miles each way are believable. People doing 10+10 miles each day on those roads could be the kind of people that also record their commutes with Strava. However people that have to commute on normal roads shared with cars probably can't be that fast.

I live inside the city and I never mount my bike computer when moving around in there. The normal cyclists that use a bicycle to go shopping probably don't do more than 12 km/h, twice as much as a fast pedestrian. Obviously they don't record their journeys.

So, still skewed data but with an explanation.

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