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Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#101

Post by eaevans99 »

rocktronica wrote: post #3

Sure seems like correlation to me. Older fathers are more likely to have established careers, establishing higher socioeconomic status, affording a lifestyle that engenders "geekiness".

Take caution. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

> The mother's age had no impact, and daughters seemed to be immune.

When a significant effect is seen in only one of four comparisons (maternal vs paternal, sons vs daughter), then you have to suspect that the effect might be spurious.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#102

Post by zumu »

mikek wrote: post #29

Older fathers correlate with an increased risk of autism. https://www.autismspeaks.org/science/science-news/study-ties...

Does anyone know if this compounds generationally? Like do the odds go up for the son of an old father, who is the son of an old father?

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#103

Post by valuearb »

eaevans99 wrote: post #101
rocktronica wrote: post #3

Sure seems like correlation to me. Older fathers are more likely to have established careers, establishing higher socioeconomic status, affording a lifestyle that engenders "geekiness".

Take caution. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. > The mother's age had no impact, and daughters seemed to be immune. When a significant effect is seen in only one of four comparisons (maternal vs paternal, sons vs daughter), then you have to suspect that the effect might be spurious.

That's interesting, I thought there was a correlation between older mothers and autism, and autism has a correlation to geekiness.

My wife had our youngest daughter at 40 (I was 43), and my daughter was diagnosed as autistic at 3 and a half. After lots of therapy she was able to mainstream at age 8, and made the honor roll this year.

This morning she noticed a year in a book her older sister was reading. She exclaimed "That's the year Isaac Newton was born!". I said "okay" not sure if she could be right, and she then whispered to me, "and it's the year Galileo died". I looked it up, and she was right. So I kind of consider her geeky.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#107

Post by zamalek »

ridgeguy wrote: post #57
rocktronica wrote: post #3

Sure seems like correlation to me. Older fathers are more likely to have established careers, establishing higher socioeconomic status, affording a lifestyle that engenders "geekiness".

From another article about this research [1], here's what they controlled for in terms of other potential correlations: "This effect persisted after controlling for parent's social/economic status, qualifications and employment." [1] https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2017-06/kcl-odh06191... Haven't read the original paper yet, so no opinion on quality of the reported research.

Interesting. That might lead to questions about genetic expression in semen, but then you'd expect daughters to not be immune.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#108

Post by eeZah7Ux »

samirillian wrote: post #12
rocktronica wrote: post #3

Sure seems like correlation to me. Older fathers are more likely to have established careers, establishing higher socioeconomic status, affording a lifestyle that engenders "geekiness".

It would also seem that they're less likely to play sports with their children. I wonder if there's a way to isolate athleticism from geekiness.

...and isolate athleticism from sport.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#109

Post by hoophoop »

sotojuan wrote: post #71
bdamm wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it obvious? Doesn't seem obvious to me. Is it because of the stereotype that geekier men don't hook up as young as non-geek men? What is the difference between a geekier man and a less-geeky man? Can it be objectively defined?

"Geeky" is the wrong word to use here. Educated people with ""good"" jobs have children later - geeks that work in software/STEM/medicine are included. Plenty of my non-geek friends with good income careers are just now trying to settle down at 30.

In some countries it's really correlated to family cultural level (more than socioeconomic status).

In parts of Italy it's very uncommon to have children before 40!

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#110

Post by haihaibye »

dep_b wrote: post #89
awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be true, but older fathers also have more defective genes, are less able to play with their children, etc. The children are just genetically "weaker", have more physical issues and participate in far less physical activity because their father is so old. This is anecdotal evidence but one of my friends had a very old dad. He had issues which forced him to wear bifocals and hence he didn't participate in sp…

It's an on/off situation. Genetic defects happen 1:100 when the mother is 40 and 1:100000 when the mother is 23. But in 99:100 cases the kids are as healthy as the ones of a 23 year old mother. I don't have the exact numbers but it's something in that ballpark. It's not a weak versus strong physical thing. And it would affect mental capacities at the same rate. Geeks are usually not dumber than average.

Those are the rates for something like Down's syndrome. Gross chromosomal abnormalities are mostly determined by maternal age.

Everyone has a few mutations in protein coding regions, and the number rises with paternal age. Most mutations are neutral or harmful.

More rolls of the dice to accumulate more (likely small) damage is probably going to hurt you.

The way it almost certainly works is people who have better genes (for socioeconomic success in our current society) have kids later and these kids inherit these traits....

However it would probably be better if the dad had the kids younger.

It's also easier for denovo mutations to cause mental rather than physical problems as the brain is very complex so there's more genes used and more to go wrong.

PS I'm a 37 year old bioinformatician expecting a little geek in a few months :)

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