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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#101

Post by mabbo »

davidf18 wrote: post #76
mabbo wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Raising the cost of tobacco has over half the effect of getting people to quit or never start. Also very important is banning smoking in public places and hard-hitting, scary, advertisements spending about $1 to $2 per capita. Clinical interventions such as doctors speaking with patients about quitting, providing nicotine replacement therapy, and telephone counseling support are also important. But most of the gain…

This article co-authored by NYC's then Health Commissioner and Mayor Bloomberg (which I believe is a free download) provides the evidence of the various interventions along with footnotes. http://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(07)60782-X/abstr... > I've heard time and time again that scary ads don't seem to do a damn thing Whenever the TV ads are run, a number of people call to quit. Dr. Frieden has given sworn…

Sworn testimony is anecdotal. And while anecdotal evidence does have some credence, it doesn't beat a real study.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#102

Post by metaphorm »

coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

*Morlocks [0]

0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morlock

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#103

Post by jacquesm »

ss248 wrote: post #91
jacquesm wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I could make one invention, it would be something that swaps the brains of humans around every 5 years, completely randomly. People would sober up rather quickly I'm sure. A variation on that is that the world where you have no control over who you will be in it is the world that you should strive to create.

This is called "Veil of ignorance". [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

Thank you! I never realized it had a formal description.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#104

Post by davidf18 »

mabbo wrote: post #101
davidf18 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This article co-authored by NYC's then Health Commissioner and Mayor Bloomberg (which I believe is a free download) provides the evidence of the various interventions along with footnotes. http://www.thelancet.com/article/S0140-6736(07)60782-X/abstr... > I've heard time and time again that scary ads don't seem to do a damn thing Whenever the TV ads are run, a number of people call to quit. Dr. Frieden has given sworn…

Sworn testimony is anecdotal. And while anecdotal evidence does have some credence, it doesn't beat a real study.

Frieden and Bloomberg are very, very data driven. He provided data to back up his statements. He showed the cost/benefit analysis.

Also, the Frieden, Bloomberg article I cited has additional information from a Lancet peer-reviewed article.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#105

Post by dpark »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #95
dpark wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

Coloured, not colored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

I wasn't aware of this ethnic grouping. Thanks.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#106

Post by dpark »

cwal37 wrote: post #98
dpark wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

South Africa has some very specific definitions[1] for this type of thing. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

Thanks. :)

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#107

Post by thinkfurther »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
thinkfurther wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once spent a night in the home of an elderly very poor couple on Tenerife, because they offered some sort of service where the husband would fetch people from the ferry, and bring them to the airport the next day. They were so kind. He was near mentally challenged, a super sweet guy working as a garbage man there, so they could just barely afford it. They lived there because she had horrible arthritis and the clima…

> If I could make one invention, it would be something that swaps the brains of humans around every 5 years, completely randomly. People would sober up rather quickly I'm sure. A variation on that is that the world where you have no control over who you will be in it is the world that you should strive to create.

We already live in that world though, we just pretend we "made" our lives more than lucking into them. I guess some aspects of some religions are attempts to correct that, not in the least the belief in reincarnation. But one way to reach every last holdout would be to make it so.

And a way to simulate it is social pressure I guess. That's what empathy is for, and why sometimes indignation is "righteous". Though in this case, I didn't mean my post so much as finger pointing, maybe it started with that impulse but I wouldn't want to "use" this anecdote for that, after all it was something that made and makes me deeply ashamed of how lightly I take all my luck and my wealth. In a good but still a bitter way that I insist is necessary. It only feels really bad as long as one isn't actively working on helping in some way, after all.

As long as someone isn't free, we're not free. No man is an island, and all that. I don't mean socialism, as long as everybody has dignity and basic necessities, I don't care if someone has a private space ship; I mean just not trampling on the little and the weak and the unfortunate. An idea that shouldn't just be admired as noble, but implemented thoroughly, while writing tests for it. Upgrade it from warning to error, yesterday preferably.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#108

Post by torrent-of-ions »

throwanem wrote: post #100
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%. Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what…

You misread my post. Black and coloured is not the same thing in South Africa. Coloured has a significantly higher rate than other ethnic groups (black and white). The clash with American terminology is unfortunate, but in this case there is no alternative.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#109

Post by GeekyBear »

So America has massively increased the tax burden on the poorest Americans (ever increasing tobacco taxes) while simultaneously cutting taxes on Capital Gains and Inheritance and now we are considering a large cut to the Corporate rate?

Not to mention all the states with a lottery, which can also be thought of as a tax on poor people who are bad at math.

This seems like class warfare.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#110

Post by gscott »

GeekyBear wrote: post #109

So America has massively increased the tax burden on the poorest Americans (ever increasing tobacco taxes) while simultaneously cutting taxes on Capital Gains and Inheritance and now we are considering a large cut to the Corporate rate? Not to mention all the states with a lottery, which can also be thought of as a tax on poor people who are bad at math. This seems like class warfare.

In California we have a crisis, not enough people are smoking and paying the taxes. So the cigarette taxes have to be raised again and again then other tax sources have to be found.
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