A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off • Hacker News Board

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#101

Post by vwcx » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

The real thing to fear here is the normalization of violence.

Good perspective in the WP comments:

"The truly shocking thing here is that violence - with the real possibility of serious injury - was viewed as appropriate in a situation that was purely logistical. The airline wanted seats for its own employees. This was not an emergency - such as a terrorist attack or a drunk passenger endangering people. The lack of judgment is stunning. There is no way that violence was justified."

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#102

Post by jessaustin » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

TallGuyShort wrote: post #19

Twirrim wrote: post #5

Today must be a fun day to be on United's PR team.

Tough day for them, but now tomorrow I'm sure customers will be a lot more compliant and willing to take arbitrary orders to save the airline money, and that will make everyone's job easier. #WorthIt

Sadly, you're probably right. One suspects there have been several memos from corporate directing gate agents to reduce voucher spending by any means necessary. It isn't shocking that the obvious solution to this gate agent was to beat up a random Chinese guy.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#103

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:01 PM UTC

pbiggar wrote: post #12

Buried at the bottom: > "The airline eventually cleared everyone from the plane, Bridges said, and did not let them back on until the man was removed a second time — in a stretcher." My reading is they beat him so badly they had to put him in a stretcher. Is that right?

[deleted]

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#104

Post by Analemma_ » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #56

joelrunyon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally - is this considered assault?

Depends on the lawyer, if you can get it before a judge and judge/jury. It's unlikely since United has very expensive lawyers I'm sure. Remember, the law is different depending on your income and status. Large companies are like very rich people. They can and do often get away with murder.

I don't think that matters in this case. When (not if) this guy sues, United is going to pay a huge settlement (with a gag clause) to make this go away as quickly as possible. They do not want this going to court with weeks of media attention, even if their case is ironclad.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#105

Post by kordless » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

objclxt wrote: post #47

joelrunyon wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally - is this considered assault?

No. It's a federal crime to disobey instructions of the flight or the captain. If they ask you to leave the aircraft you're required to leave. If you refuse and need to be physically removed, tough. Not that I'm saying this makes United's behavior acceptable - I have no idea how they managed to load the plane before realizing they needed extra seats - just that the law is, in this case, on their side.

I'm not trying to rationalize anyone's actions here, but if the captain told you to kill another passenger, that is not within his right of removal of choice for individual. i.e. The captain is only allowed to remove choice for an individual when the group is threatened, given they are in charge, by law, of making choices for group (perhaps for the reason of or related to in-flight matters).

Edit: changed he to they.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#106

Post by AnimalMuppet » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

panzagl wrote: post #45

bello wrote: post #21

They messed up and overbooked the flight, sure. But why on earth would they forcefully drag people out of the plane, while they could just find volunteers? They could offer cash/miles to whoever volunteered, increasing the offer until someone accepted. I've seen other airlines do this on several occasions. They couldn't have handled it worse than they did.

They did, they went up to $800 and nobody volunteered. They were too cheap to offer any more.

What are they legally required to offer before they can just pick people?

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#107

Post by ianai » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

MattSteelblade wrote: post #64

tomp wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Involuntary Deny Boarding I don't have the contract at hand, but by the above wording, the man was already boarded...

From my understanding, you're correct. Deny Boarding can be avoided by checking in early. These people had boarded and the plane was full before the mistake was realized. EDIT: Still unsure as to the legality of this. IDB is well established, but the fact that everyone has boarded is a different matter. Reading the contract of carriage did not bring any more light to this point. And let's be clear, denying someone an…

Too bad, I say. If we're going by the exact letter of the law on what is/isn't acceptable then the mistake started and ended on the airline side.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#108

Post by mtgx » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

treehau5 wrote: post #46

whitepoplar wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that what's legal and what's ethical have diverged into two wholly different things. "The law" is now often used to aid in unethical activity, not to prevent it.

The other problem is what society views as ethical or moral is now subjective to each on a variety of different factors in this post post-modern society. There was once puritanical values, however despised they are by certain factions, which unified the "ethos" of the nation on what is and is not ethical. The civil rights movement came along and augmented that ethos for the better. Now we have groups who place abando…

Airlines shouldn't be allowed to overbook. Causing people to miss their flights just because the company wanted to ensure 100% profitability per flight is unacceptable, and it shouldn't be legal (the overbooking, not the throwing off a plane for whatever other serious reason per se).

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#109

Post by ErikAugust » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:02 PM UTC

manacit wrote: post #6

Someone on a different message board put this situation very well: By the letter of the law, United was correct - morally, they were not. Their 'contract of carriage' allows them to IDB (Involuntary Deny Boarding) to passengers due to overselling, and bump people off at-will. Depending on how delayed the passenger would be to their final destination, they would owe compensation (up to a max of $1350) for the trouble.…

Pretty sure assault and battery is not legal.

Re: A man wouldn’t leave an overbooked United flight, so he was dragged off

#110

Post by douche » Mon, Apr 10, 2017, 5:03 PM UTC

rhino369 wrote: post #8

The outrage mob is pushing this pretty hard. Booting people off a plane is pretty shitty behavior for an airline. It's bad customer service and they should dealt with it earlier than after boarding. But if they have to do it, the passenger shouldn't be allowed to just refuse. This guy did. And he had to get dragged off the plane. I don't really see an alternative other than just letting anyone willing to scream to st…

Do they not have those "Catch Me If You Can" era jumpseats for deadheads anymore?