High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials • Hacker News Board

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#101

Post by jawns » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:09 PM UTC

hn_user2 wrote: post #82

jawns wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

Actually we learned in our high school journalism classes that these protections are federal and based off of court cases. Part of our high-school journalism curriculum was learning the court cases that protected our rights as high-school journalists from school administration interference. Of course, a school intent on interfering with a newspaper is probably not going to make that part of the curriculum.

You may want to look at the Supreme Court case Hazelwood School District v. Kuhlmeier, which holds that school officials may censor articles in a student newspaper "so long as their actions are reasonably related to legitimate pedagogical concerns." That's a pretty broad latitude granted to administrators.

There is a New Voices movement in multiple states to strengthen students' rights regarding school newspapers: http://www.cjr.org/united_states_project/new_voices_campaign...

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#102

Post by Cyph0n » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:11 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #98

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

Because I don't care what qualifications you have. If you want me to respect you and call you by some honorific name, you have to make me respect you enough to do so, otherwise I don't care what some piece of paper says you should be called. I don't call English "knights" Sir either, because fuck that. Note that none of this means I'd be rude, I just wouldn't afford them any more respect than anybody else.

Reducing the work and/or contributions required to get a PhD/MD (or other honorific) to a "piece of paper" is very naive in my opinion. But whatever floats your boat, mate.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#103

Post by abraves10001 » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:12 PM UTC

noxToken wrote: post #97

cwingrav wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't pay them well so we get what we pay for. The exceptions are those that love to teach and love students. You can't run an organization via exceptions however. It's really a shame we don't value education more.

> It's really a shame we don't value education more. This might sound nit-picky but I think we all (Americans) value education as a whole. We just don't care (as a whole) about education for others outside of our sphere . When you have the ability to move to better school system or to pay for private school attendance, you have no need to improve public schools. Not all public school systems are bad. I image that eve…

> This might sound nit-picky but I think we all (Americans) value education as a whole

Everything you wrote after that sounds exactly like we don't value education as a whole. We individually value getting a good education but far too frequently ignore how education as a whole is beneficial to society.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#104

Post by ballenf » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:15 PM UTC

cwingrav wrote: post #85

ryanmarsh wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US I feel like the primary education system is simply childcare for the working class. My experience with teacher quality was just like yours.

We don't pay them well so we get what we pay for. The exceptions are those that love to teach and love students. You can't run an organization via exceptions however. It's really a shame we don't value education more.

The pay is not the problem in most districts. Teacher pay is enough that getting a job at all but a few problem districts is pretty competitive. It also rewards extra degrees that have little if any value in more effective teaching.

The system is setup very defensively to protect the problem teachers from responsibility.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#105

Post by ballenf » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:20 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #74

jawns wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, not all U.S. states give students this right. When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run.

> When I was co-editor of my high school's student newspaper, every issue was subject to administrative review. Our principal literally read every issue prior to publication and told us what could and couldn't be run. No different from any "real" newspaper.

I worked on school papers high school through college. Administrative review served a very useful purpose and kept the quality of the papers higher. I respected every administrator I dealt with.

They have a much harder job than it might appear at first blush -- even the slightest hint of repressing a valid story turns a very harsh spotlight on them.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#106

Post by SomeStupidPoint » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:27 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #50

My experience with young people is they think nothing of googling someone. Example. 25yr old always G Earth the presons address, searches other sites,FB, etc As ROUTINE. New male client comes in she openly tells coworkers about her results.

Ew.

Your staff using client information to look up non-necessary information about them to satisfy their interests is a massive breach of privacy. In most places with an official privacy policy, that would violate it. Particularly just to gossip with coworkers!

I hope I never do business with your office. Just ick.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#107

Post by Macsenour » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:34 PM UTC

dkersten wrote: post #98

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

Because I don't care what qualifications you have. If you want me to respect you and call you by some honorific name, you have to make me respect you enough to do so, otherwise I don't care what some piece of paper says you should be called. I don't call English "knights" Sir either, because fuck that. Note that none of this means I'd be rude, I just wouldn't afford them any more respect than anybody else.

>Note that none of this means I'd be rude

Not calling a knight Sir, is rude to THEM. They earned it,they were recognized for their achievement. To not call them Sir is rude.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#108

Post by pavel_lishin » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

pavel_lishin wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had a high school teacher who demanded that we address them as Dr. Whozits on the first day, and would correct us. They learned that you can demand respect all you want, but if you actually want to get respect, you have to earn it from the people you're expecting it from.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

Superior, eh?

They were presenting themselves as better than ours; not merely our teacher, but our superior, our better. Not as someone who would instruct and help us. And yes, it was the first day, the first attempt to make a first impression, and that impression was: I am more important than you, and I demand that you all to acknowledge it every day.

It was incredibly pompous and tone-deaf.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#109

Post by losteverything » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:50 PM UTC

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #106

losteverything wrote: post #50

My experience with young people is they think nothing of googling someone. Example. 25yr old always G Earth the presons address, searches other sites,FB, etc As ROUTINE. New male client comes in she openly tells coworkers about her results.

Ew. Your staff using client information to look up non-necessary information about them to satisfy their interests is a massive breach of privacy. In most places with an official privacy policy, that would violate it. Particularly just to gossip with coworkers! I hope I never do business with your office. Just ick.

Family member..vet practice. ... It is very "ewe"!!

Sometimes she does it on her own time. Often though she will at home off the clock.

Makes is sick actually. We never share any thing personal,ever.

Re: High school journalists investigated a new principal’s credentials

#110

Post by Cyph0n » Thu, Apr 06, 2017, 3:51 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #108

Cyph0n wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He earned that title, and he was your teacher (a superior), so I don't understand why you were annoyed. Most importantly, it was the first day! Think of an interview for example: would it be polite to address your interviewer using his/her first name? No, unless the interviewer gives you permission to do so. Edit: It seems like a lot of HN users have a severe aversion to authority, so I guess I've learned something n…

Superior, eh? They were presenting themselves as better than ours; not merely our teacher, but our superior , our better . Not as someone who would instruct and help us. And yes, it was the first day, the first attempt to make a first impression, and that impression was: I am more important than you, and I demand that you all to acknowledge it every day. It was incredibly pompous and tone-deaf.

A teacher is not higher in rank than a student? Why, let's just have students teach each other then :)

I'm obviously not familiar with your situation; I definitely agree with you if the teacher was intentionally being pretentious. But if he/she was just correcting students and asking them to call him/her "doctor" on the first day, I think you are overdoing it.