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Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

nytimes.com

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Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#101

Post by tanderson92 »

amalcon wrote: post #40
tanderson92 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the constitution list fraud as an exception to the free speech provisions?

I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, etc. Assuming you mean the Mexican constitution, it's kind of vague: Article 6 . The expression of ideas shall not be subject to any judicial or administrative investigation, unless it offends good morals, infringes the rights of others, incites to crime, or disturbs the public order. "Offends good morals" is not defined anywhere, so it's up to interpretation whether that…

Thanks.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#102

Post by snowpanda »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #81

It's us , the USA, that is causing this paper to shutdown. The cartels are financed by the insatiable drug appetite of its close neighbor. Our inability and/or unwillingness to legalize recreational drugs is the feeding tube for these vicious groups.

Mexico has plenty of its own problems that you're overlooking. It's not as simple as problem -> cause. By that logic Mexico would be to blame for Columbia's cocaine trafficking.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#103

Post by sceew »

digitalmaster wrote: post #2

This is why real journalist need to be protected regardless where you stand on the issues. It's a pillar of democracy for a very important reason.

It's easy to say that when you lean left. Not sure what 'protecting journalists' entails. They should by treated just like every other citizen.

Don't forget about JournoList: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JournoList .

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#104

Post by chrischen »

snowpanda wrote: post #102
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #81

It's us , the USA, that is causing this paper to shutdown. The cartels are financed by the insatiable drug appetite of its close neighbor. Our inability and/or unwillingness to legalize recreational drugs is the feeding tube for these vicious groups.

Mexico has plenty of its own problems that you're overlooking. It's not as simple as problem -> cause. By that logic Mexico would be to blame for Columbia's cocaine trafficking.

Nope, still America.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#105

Post by hwillis »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #98
hwillis wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>shipping them guns This is occasionally obfuscated, but it is utterly true. There are basically two kinds of guns (of the kind you can use to enforce this "war") in the world stage: AK-like (Russian, eastern European, and Chinese included) and AR-like (MXX(X) and modified civilian, from dealers and left over from military/agency operations). The AR-like guns are extremely common in Mexico, and they obviously are all…

Good argument for better border control between the two countries.

There are good arguments for border patrol but this is not one of them. These guns are legal in the US and all you have to do to get them into Mexico is load them on a catapult and drive out to the middle of nowhere, or load them in one of the hundreds of small boats that make the trip. It's trivial to find guns illegally coming into mexico from a boat that can cross oceans and nearly impossible for a boat you can make in your garage. Border patrol will not solve gun violence in Mexico any more than it will solve cocaine in America.

As an unrelated thing, I find it mind boggling that immigration is still an explicitly national issue in America. Refugees and immigrants would be much better handled if they were done on a per-state basis. If California wants to let in a ton of Mexicans and issue them state-only green cards, why should Texas be able to vote to stop them? Likewise if Texas wants to exclude immigrants, why should California force Texas to give them jobs?

State-only green card programs would allow immigrants to be carefully tracked (national green card holders face deportation if their residence is not on file), gives them incentive to go from states where they aren't wanted to those where they are, and allows national money and patrol efforts to be focused where they are wanted. Immigrants can't steal Texan jobs if they live in California.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#106

Post by jakebasile »

lazaroclapp wrote: post #91
function_seven wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You tell me what your model speech code would look like, and I'll show you how I could use it to shut your speech down within a decade.

Are you sure about that? I am usually a pretty strong free speech advocate, up to toeing the line of being a free speech absolutist at some points in my life (of the: "nuclear weapon blueprints posted online are just as valid speech as any other sequence of bits, information wants to be free!" variety). But I still think you can design speech codes that are not prone to slippery slope under any sane interpretation. I…

> fighting words

This isn't an exception to free speech protections.

'In 1942 the Supreme Court held that the government could prohibit "fighting words" — "those which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace." The Supreme Court has been retreating from that pronouncement ever since. [...] the only remaining focus is on whether the speech will provoke immediate face-to-face violence. '

Quoted from https://www.popehat.com/2015/05/19/how-to-spot-and-critique-...

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#107

Post by mikeash »

hwillis wrote: post #105
WillPostForFood wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good argument for better border control between the two countries.

There are good arguments for border patrol but this is not one of them. These guns are legal in the US and all you have to do to get them into Mexico is load them on a catapult and drive out to the middle of nowhere, or load them in one of the hundreds of small boats that make the trip. It's trivial to find guns illegally coming into mexico from a boat that can cross oceans and nearly impossible for a boat you can ma…

Leaving immigration to the states would require internal border controls. This is not something most people want.

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#108

Post by [deleted] »

itsmemattchung wrote: post #7

> The committee reported that since 1992, 38 journalists have been killed with the motives for the slayings confirmed as reprisals for their work. Based on that figure, the group ranked Mexico as No. 11 of the 20 deadliest countries for journalists. I cannot imagine living in a country where posting something online, like a silly blog post, risks my life.

[deleted]

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#109

Post by zeppelin101 »

telesilla wrote: post #58
ggregoire wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly love the country of México [...] but this terror is too real and I found myself living in constant anxiety of my friends and colleagues being in danger To be fair with Mexico, those issues don't affect the whole country. Mexico City is pretty safe for example. If you want to travel to Mexico, here is a list of states and cities to avoid: https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings...

My friends are thinkers and challengers of the system: it's for them I am more worried, that they can't speak freely. I could move to Condesa and live a protected life, but that's just colonialism (using my spending power to put a cocoon around me with Uber and private parties). That's not the México I'm interested in. I've also been mugged rather violently there anyway on Calle Amsterdam, (though no worse than Barce…

Almost hard to believe that you could have gotten mugged in that part of DF. But maybe at night?

Re: Mexican Newspaper Shuts Down, Saying It Is Too Dangerous to Continue

#110

Post by _delirium »

telesilla wrote: post #58
ggregoire wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I truly love the country of México [...] but this terror is too real and I found myself living in constant anxiety of my friends and colleagues being in danger To be fair with Mexico, those issues don't affect the whole country. Mexico City is pretty safe for example. If you want to travel to Mexico, here is a list of states and cities to avoid: https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/alertswarnings...

My friends are thinkers and challengers of the system: it's for them I am more worried, that they can't speak freely. I could move to Condesa and live a protected life, but that's just colonialism (using my spending power to put a cocoon around me with Uber and private parties). That's not the México I'm interested in. I've also been mugged rather violently there anyway on Calle Amsterdam, (though no worse than Barce…

My very limited experience with Mexico City is that I'd treat it like many U.S. cities: it's fine, if you know which areas to avoid after dark, and which areas to avoid entirely. It is not like a safe European city center where you can go almost anywhere alone on foot at any time of day. But most U.S. cities don't fit that description either. And it's not at the other extreme that some people imagine, some kind of Somalia-esque set of private compounds separated by lawless warzones.
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