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UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

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Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#101

I'm a bit tired of reading doomsday messages by now. I am an European living and working in the UK and even though this affects me I have no reason to believe that things will go downwards now. If there's anything I've learned so far then that every analysis I've read couldn't have been more wrong. It almost seems like the more the UK economy doesn't collapse the more people shout even louder how bad the Brexit is. M…

You haven't been affected by the changes because nothing has happened yet. This is the start of the negotiations to decide what those changes will be. And when I say nothing has happened yet, I mean apart from the massive drop in the value of sterling and inflation massively outstripping wage increases. I assume you're based in London, which means you're fairly isolated from the social changes that have happened acro…

And I bet you nothing will happen in 2 or 3 or 5 years either.

Except for the "massive drop in the value of sterling" which is due to market and media hysteria, which will correct itself.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#102
post #61

Whatever one may think of the politics or if one's country should join/leave, it's absolutely true that EU has been a big factor in keeping the peace between European nations for decades. The Nobel Peace Prize to EU got a lot of criticism because of politics, but I think it was important to show that EU has helped keep the peace.

Can we really say that it's the EU though? Europe has many international organizations that include member nations. Is the EU responsible or NATO or the UN or a simple exhaustion of war and extreme nationalism? The EU as it exists today has been alive fewer than 30 years! That's a blip in time.

Europe will remain strong, regardless of this, won't it?

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#103

I'm a bit tired of reading doomsday messages by now. I am an European living and working in the UK and even though this affects me I have no reason to believe that things will go downwards now. If there's anything I've learned so far then that every analysis I've read couldn't have been more wrong. It almost seems like the more the UK economy doesn't collapse the more people shout even louder how bad the Brexit is. M…

You haven't been affected by the changes because nothing has happened yet. This is the start of the negotiations to decide what those changes will be. And when I say nothing has happened yet, I mean apart from the massive drop in the value of sterling and inflation massively outstripping wage increases. I assume you're based in London, which means you're fairly isolated from the social changes that have happened acro…

According to the IMF [1], the pound was already overvalued. In currency markets, it usually takes large news events to prompt large fluctuations but they are just often the trigger, not the underlying cause.

[1] http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/2016/cr16168.pdf#pag...

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#104
post #40
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Falklands happened "because of the EU"? Thats news to me. I thought it happened because the UK needs the oil reserves to prop up its broken economy.

Except I didn't say that the Falklands happened because of the EU, did I? It happened because Argentina invaded British sovereign territory, and the British defended it. Interestingly, not a single other EU country aided the UK.

France aided the UK and was the UK's best ally during the campaign. They declared an arms embargo against Argentina, they allowed use of french controlled ports in West Africa, they provided lots of information about Exocet missiles and they aided British intelligence in preventing Argentina obtaining more of them.

Our biggest "frenemies" during the Falklands were the USA and Israel. Israel were selling them arms (or attempting to) throughout the war and the USA was neutral (with lots of Argentinian sympathy) until their hand was forced.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU Citizen here, living in the UK or "wherever I may roam". I have my Ltd in the UK. I am sticking to the UK for the time being, and will keep a close eye at: 1) Tax scheme/calculations for dividends. 2) Ability to transfer money in & out and at what cost (in the extreme case of Capital Controls or limiting transfers abroad). 3) Exchange Rate of GBP against EUR, USD, and a couple more so I make sure that my payments…

Do let us know if the GBP ever tumbles against the EUR or USD.

It already did. https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/gbpusd=X?ltr=1 or https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/gbpeur=X?ltr=1 Click 2Y.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#106
post #11

I sincerely hope that today (and obviously the day it actually happens) isn't something that I look back on with sadness in the future. I live in the UK, and am really saddened by the way that politics is 'progressing' - in fact, regressing to a time where nationalism seems to be the voice, and one which I think will inevitably lead to conflict. Combined with the Trump situation in the USA, I am extremely pessimistic…

We had plenty of conflict while part of the EU: the Falklands, Iraq, the IRA, Bosnia for example. It wasn't nationalism which caused conflicts in Europe, it was a lack of democracy.

> It wasn't nationalism which caused conflicts in Europe, it was a lack of democracy.

This is infuriatingly vague.

What are you complaining about? That the various EU councils aren't directly elected? Well, they are all delegates of politicians who have been elected in their home country. And to have a direct election makes no sense, because it's not like a Swede will vote for an Italian politician. For that to happen the EU would have to turn into some kind of United States of Europe, but "surprisingly" people who complain about a lack of democracy also always want their own home country to remain autonomy. Which is a driving force in the exact opposite direction: less direct democracy, let the elected politicians duke things out while trying to work towards the best interest of their people.

I mean this is international legislation we are talking about, trying to navigate the different laws and customs of each individual EU member. It's inherently goddamn complicated and it's probably for the best that we let the delegated politicians deal with it for the most part.

Or is it about the supposed "unelected bureaucrats in Europe telling us what to do!" Because that's another part that I find really fucking annoying about Eurosceptics who talk out of their ass: the complaint that EU makes things more complicated and creates more red tape, when there hasn't been any other project remotely as effective at reducing as much bureaucracy from the European continent as the European Union.

You hear these complaints of "They're wasting time on creating more red tape and banning curved bananas!"? Because that too is nonsense, to the point that there is an entire blog dedicated to debunking such Euromyths[0]. Here, I'll give you an explicit example of one that I investigated myself:

On the 29th of May 2014 the Telegraph[1], the Daily Mail[2], the Independent[3] all published virtually identical articles accusing the EU of being out to ban classic perfumes. The next day the Times (sorry, no link) did the same.

None of the articles mentioned a source (of course), but they turned out to be rewritten versions of a Reuters article from a day earlier[4], pulling paragraphs out of context and omitting key information. The actual proposal consisted of a ban on three ingredients, and an increase of the number of ingredients that have to be clearly labelled, because they have been shown to be significantly allergenic.

A special report by Reuters from 2012[5] actually discussed much stronger restrictions that the perfume industry feared for, in anticipation of a report on allergenic ingredients by the Scientific Committee on Consumer Safety. Moreover, that 2012 article discussed how the perfume industry has already been changing many of its formulas for decades, and went on to explain how a new labelling regulation – enforced by the same proposed legislation – would force them to disclose many (allergenic) ingredients of their secret formulas. Among other things, this would make it harder for brands to get away with changing their formulas unnoticed.

By contrast, the 2014 Reuters article indicates that the final changes were fairly non-controversial, likely because the EU held a number of public consultations with the perfume industry between 2012 and 2014. In other words: the European Union had been transparent to and cooperative with the cosmetics industry in implementing changes to its perfume regulation.

Now here's the real kicker: when researching this, we discovered that the main legislation surrounding cosmetic products – Regulation 1223/2009 – replaced the old directive of over 3500 pages, which was patched with 55 amendments and full of incoherent terminology, with a single coherent regulation of about 200 pages, greatly reducing costs for the cosmetic industry. Not that anyone took notice of that. And before you blame that old 3500 page document on the EU, realise that that was basically all the separate national laws thrown together onto one heap of amendments - hardly the EU's fault. Read the press release here[6].

A 3500 page document! Mind you, that wasn't the fault of of the EU, that represented the underlying, incompatible laws of the various member countries. And the EU fixed that and simplified it to a universal 200 pages, applicable everywhere. Do you have any idea how much administration costs that saves across the continent?

And this happens again and again, and you never hear anyone talk of this.

[0] http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

[1] http://fashion.telegraph.co.uk/beauty/newsfeatures/TMG108620...

[2] http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2642389/Now-EU-rules...

[3] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/iconic-chane...

[4] http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-perfume-idUKKBN0E30GE201...

[5] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-perfume-idUSBRE8BF0...

[6] http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-08-184_en.htm?locale...

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#107
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If only there was a snowball's chance in hell of this achieving something. (disclosure: party member)

indeed, but NOT campaigning is guaranteeing party death (disclosure: party member). The lib dems are pretty useless right now, but they may have a big swing next election and they need keeping alive until then. Generally, they're the only sane party. Mostly because it's easy to have ideals when you're not in power.

It's really sad that the Brits didn't succeed in getting rid of the first-past-the-post system. Here in the Netherlands with our somewhat extreme version of proportional representation we still have similar problems, but they seem to be much less than over there.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you didn't see a war between Germany and England though... Bosnia, Iraq etc were not part of the EU. The point was to create a closely integrated Europe so that war would become unthinkable just like a war between England and Scotland is unthinkable now. Of course it was nationalism which caused conflicts in Europe. Did democracy prevent Russia to invade Ukraine? UK simply decided the European project is not wo…

Based on statistics I would say that any war between the UK and Germany is more likely to be inflicted by Germany... just saying...

Does it matter who started? I don't think blaming one state or another helps much once the nukes take off.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm formally getting EU citizenship (which I'm lucky enough to be entitled to as a citizen of Ireland). There is going to be increased demand for this, particularly as people realise that there is going to be a hard border (which seems inevitable, given the statements on freedom of movement). I won't actually move, but I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of personal and small businesses move in exactly the way you're su…

The letter specifically calls for ensuring there is no hard border.

A couple of Daily Mail articles about refugees crossing the border and that could change in a hurry.

Re: UK triggers the official Brexit process in a letter to EU

#110
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Independence from what? Should England be an Independent state? London? The City of London?

Kensington and Chelsea. Definitely!

Kensington High Street for the inhabitants of Kensington High Street!
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