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What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

newhumanist.org.uk

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Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#101

Post by projectorlochsa »

adrianN wrote: post #95
TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people mentioning things like "become a vegetarian" or "bike to work", but those are easy and neglible-impact things. Sure, they'd have a huge effect if half of the population suddenly adopted them, but that's not going to happen - so just going vegetarian yourself and calling it a day is not really helping anything. What I'd love to see is a list of high-impact work one could use their skills to help with. May…

Data centers use a lot of power. Make data centers more efficient, for example by improving GCC or the Linux Kernel, and you can save a chunk. Don't write your billion-user apps in Python, use a more efficient language like Rust or Go. Don't make 10MB webpages where 100kb would also suffice. But I think useful change can only be made using political means. Write your representatives and tell them how you feel. Vote f…

Data centers are about 1-2% of emissions.

Animal agriculture is comparable to all transit, while heating/cooling/electricity is heavily at the top.

If I were profiling I'd optimize the highest bottleneck first.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#102

Post by TeMPOraL »

adrianN wrote: post #95
TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people mentioning things like "become a vegetarian" or "bike to work", but those are easy and neglible-impact things. Sure, they'd have a huge effect if half of the population suddenly adopted them, but that's not going to happen - so just going vegetarian yourself and calling it a day is not really helping anything. What I'd love to see is a list of high-impact work one could use their skills to help with. May…

Data centers use a lot of power. Make data centers more efficient, for example by improving GCC or the Linux Kernel, and you can save a chunk. Don't write your billion-user apps in Python, use a more efficient language like Rust or Go. Don't make 10MB webpages where 100kb would also suffice. But I think useful change can only be made using political means. Write your representatives and tell them how you feel. Vote f…

> But I think useful change can only be made using political means. Write your representatives and tell them how you feel. Vote for politicians who want to change things.

I like technical solutions because they're undemocratic - they can step around conflicting short-term agendas and force change by exploiting market / people's preferences. In the day and age when climate is at best a very distant concern for most people, political solutions seem like a hard work for little and uncertain effect.

I wish I could be proven wrong on that though. Are there any low-hanging, high-impact fruits one could focus on? Maybe one should refocus on local politics? It seems much less messy and corrupt than national-scale politics.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#103

Post by martalist »

mverwijs wrote: post #93
anticodon wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a vegetarian myself, although for another reason: I don't want living beings to be tortured and killed for my food. But I find is that vegetarian propaganda is many times so disgusting and based on lies that it's probably going to turn people away from vegeterian food. Some vegeterians and vegans are obnoxious bigots and their efforts are generating opposite result - people start hating vegeterians and vegeterian…

I know. Lately I've been realizing the enormity of the fact that of all the planets we've found this one is the only one where life flourished. How then can we possibly take the killing of life so lightly?

It's the mass extinction event that we've created that really grinds at me. All these amazing species of flora/fauna erased from the universe to make our lives a little more convenient.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#104

Post by mvitorino »

mavhc wrote: post #70
andrewwhartion wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quick 'back of the envelope' (literally) calculations: Toyota Camry [0] Dual VVT-i engine gets 7.9L/100km and 183gm/km emissions. That roughly works out as 2.3kg CO2 per 1L petrol. Therefore, a tonne of CO2 is produced for every ~430L petrol. Petrol is around AUD $1.40/L, so about AUD $600 of petrol. Carbon credits [1] are worth about $14 euros per tonne of CO2, which is say AUD $19. Therefore 'carbon neutral' petrol…

This is what confuses me, if it only costs 10% more to fix the problem, why the hell is it still a problem?

Because politicians choose the spend the money elsewhere since, so far, it doesn't give enough votes.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#105

Post by sasvari »

martalist wrote: post #99
qbaqbaqba wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have some doubts about becoming vegetarian: soya cultivation has a huge negative impact on rain forests and on farmers. I prefer to obtain meat from local farmers that use traditional methods - don't abuse antibiotics and use locally grown pasture.

Soya beans aren't the only bean a vegetarian can eat. There are plenty of protein rich plants that will grow in almost every climate. While I applaud your meat buying preferences, it would be an environmental disaster for every meat eater on earth to attempt to do the same.

While I applaud your meat buying preferences, it would be an environmental disaster for every meat eater on earth to attempt to do the same.

I might not get the point, but why would it be a bigger environmental disaster?

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#106

Post by _andromeda_ »

programmernews3 wrote: post #100
anotherturn wrote: post #10

It's not really enough to read and upvote, but I'm at a loss as to what I can personally can do about this. So in the spirit of the askhn "how would you turn around Twitter" - let's apply the same thinking to this: "how would you fix the oceans "? There must be some practical steps that one or many of the hn audience can execute?

Population control is the only long term option. It has naturally happened in Japan and most of the West. China is now under control as well. We now need to limit the artificial growth of Africa by stopping food programs and allowing balance to be reached.

>We now need to limit the artificial growth of Africa by stopping food programs and allowing balance to be reached

I agree with you but for different reasons. Your suggestion borders on some mild form of eugenics that I don't necessarily agree with. What I would say is that the figurative 'training wheels' should be taken off the bicycle i.e. Africans have to figure their own stuff out without depending on the west for foreign aid if any long term solution is to be found for Africa's problems.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#107

Post by arnoooooo »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #77
anotherturn wrote: post #10

It's not really enough to read and upvote, but I'm at a loss as to what I can personally can do about this. So in the spirit of the askhn "how would you turn around Twitter" - let's apply the same thinking to this: "how would you fix the oceans "? There must be some practical steps that one or many of the hn audience can execute?

I see people mentioning things like "become a vegetarian" or "bike to work", but those are easy and neglible-impact things. Sure, they'd have a huge effect if half of the population suddenly adopted them, but that's not going to happen - so just going vegetarian yourself and calling it a day is not really helping anything. What I'd love to see is a list of high-impact work one could use their skills to help with. May…

The compounded impact from multiple people is not negligible.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#108

Post by martalist »

sasvari wrote: post #105
martalist wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soya beans aren't the only bean a vegetarian can eat. There are plenty of protein rich plants that will grow in almost every climate. While I applaud your meat buying preferences, it would be an environmental disaster for every meat eater on earth to attempt to do the same.

While I applaud your meat buying preferences, it would be an environmental disaster for every meat eater on earth to attempt to do the same. I might not get the point, but why would it be a bigger environmental disaster?

Because we'd need significantly more land/pasture to feed livestock that way.

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#109

Post by bamie9l »

anotherturn wrote: post #10

It's not really enough to read and upvote, but I'm at a loss as to what I can personally can do about this. So in the spirit of the askhn "how would you turn around Twitter" - let's apply the same thinking to this: "how would you fix the oceans "? There must be some practical steps that one or many of the hn audience can execute?

The ocean cleanup project is working to remove plastic: https://www.theoceancleanup.com/ I'm not affiliated so can't speak for due diligence etc. but they have posted regular progress updates whilst they test and develop their solution

Re: What fossil fuels are doing to our oceans

#110

Post by TeMPOraL »

arnoooooo wrote: post #107
TeMPOraL wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see people mentioning things like "become a vegetarian" or "bike to work", but those are easy and neglible-impact things. Sure, they'd have a huge effect if half of the population suddenly adopted them, but that's not going to happen - so just going vegetarian yourself and calling it a day is not really helping anything. What I'd love to see is a list of high-impact work one could use their skills to help with. May…

The compounded impact from multiple people is not negligible.

Of course it isn't. But the marginal impact is. That's the difference between "go vegetarian" vs. "convince millions to go vegetarian".

I'm asking for things a skilled individual can do that would have larger marginal impact that changing one's own dietary habits.

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