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The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
101–110 of 237 posts
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#102Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why pay $300k+ a year for a developer then just to go and save a few hundred a month on real estate costs, sacrificing some percentage of productivity?
Because not everyone in Google (or any other open-office space) is a developer. In fact, most are not, and most are getting way less pay.
Its interesting to consider if Google is innovative when you take a bucket of corporate innovation and divide by the (immense) number of employees. I'm not asking if they purchase innovative new/little companies, I'm well aware they do that. I'm not claiming no innovation comes out of Google HQ, why I'm sure they output at least as much innovation as perhaps a 1000 person research lab, maybe even twice that, of course the whole point of the problem is they have 60K employees...
All I'm claiming is you pour the innovation out of Google Corp Hq into a bucket and, um, how about MIT Media Lab into a bucket, and measure the two buckets on a scale. I feel MIT wins handily. But for the sake of argument lets say Google kicks the MIT Media Lab's butt to the tune of 10x as much innovation. There is still a slight problem in that the MIT lab is about 100 people (to one sig fig) and Google Corp is just under 60K according to a Google search. Assuming similar quality of "human resources" Google should be consistently producing 600 times as much innovation per year as MIT Media Lab. Maybe when you factor in Google's company purchases, after which all innovation at the purchased company traditionally ceases...
Isn't Google fundamentally on the scales of justice more of a profitable advertising sales boiler room than a source of innovation?
If as a company, its mostly about being a sales boiler room, then it should look like a sales boiler room, shouldn't it? Perhaps there is less inconsistency between what is observed vs theory after all.
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#103I think we've lost the war. I was even asked to meet with my company's architects and designers about a new space we were building out. I basically spent an hour telling them in every different form I could that what I wanted was a place I could go where people could find me, but they would have to knock on a door and open it to talk to me, and these people looked at me like I was from fucking Mars. They'd never hear…
The place you are looking for exists: it is called home :-)
That may fly if you are single. Otherwise everybody will assume that if you are at home, you are here to go shopping, take care of kids, let in guests, cook meals, do cleaning, take out trash, etc. ect, and lets not start about other household members distracting you with loud noises.
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#104Posted and discussed before multiple times. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8815065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9610075 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9404006
and two other times even more recently:
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#105Some people need different accommodations than others and companies need to accommodate these requests, in many cases, by law. These include desks and chairs in addition to electronics. Many companies are still too cheap to buy proper desks and chairs for their engineers, let alone monitors and other peripherals. Almost none of the dozens or hundreds of open office plans I've ever seen promote healthy computing, often foregoing proper desks, chairs, and monitors for some kitchen table with a crappy chair and everyone working on laptops. That isn't healthy nor acceptable, and I hope that people realize that they don't have to accept such conditions (at least in the US). If employers are too cheap to listen, perhaps a continuing rise in worker's comp claims and ergonomic workstation prescriptions will get them to start listening. While this problem isn't exclusive to open offices, I see much more of this in open offices, especially at startups. If companies can't even get these basics right, it's unlikely they'll get anything else about the office right either, especially since they're not trying.
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#106The open versus closed office debate feels new, but it's a pendulum that has swung for decades from one extreme to the other. The reality is that most modern workers need access to a multitude of workspaces: open, social areas for collaboration and closed, private areas for concentration. A progressive company recognizes this and sets its people free to choose the workspace they need for the work at hand.
I started in the 80s, and the trend this whole time seems unidirectional.
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#107Despite what every open office critic says, it's very possible to be productive at work in an environment that is not designed to meet their very exacting needs. You're not painting the Mona Lisa, you're working on some app or spreadsheet. It's called work for a reason. Learn to make do.
While it is possible to put up with a lot and still churn out work, many tech companies nowadays try to make their office and facilities a perk of the job. "Look how cool our office is. We have twenty coffee machines on each floor, a massive beautiful kitchen and bar, meeting rooms with couches! A game room. Come work for us!" Companies that treat their office as a selling point for employees should expect to be crit…
My advice for young devs is to pay very close attention at interview time to who's using those perks.
Ah nice k-cup machine collection but no k-cups have to bring those from home. Nice bar with beer keg tap, pity its a firing offense to drink on the job and that kegger is only for sales execs to woo customers. Nice couches in the meeting rooms, those managers and directors sitting in meetings sure look comfortable sitting there. I worked at a place with a genuine foozball table and getting caught playing foozball was a euphemism for getting downsized the next quarter, the thing seriously had dust on it like it was cursed. Maybe it was. All of that stuff is supposed to be for the trendy software dev, but its not.
Its sort of the democratization of the executive washroom. We no longer have solid marble and gold plated toilets for the executive washroom, that's so last century, today we have couches that only director level and above can sit on during meetings and kegerators that only customers can drink out of and foozball tables that no one uses. Looks nice though, doesn't it?
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#108Theoretically (if the thesis of the article is correct and widely accepted), a company willing to invest in closed offices should have a major competitive advantage in hiring engineers (who would be attracted to the quality of work life in the space).
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#109Earlier quoted context omitted.
And what to do with people who have to grab the phone or talk? They have nowhere to isolate because it's a f------- open office.
At my company there are meeting rooms, phone rooms, focus rooms, and social common spaces like micro-kitchens you can go to.
So you go there and they're already all taken.
Yep. Never seen an open office company with enough of those. It's a curse.
Re: The open-office trend is destroying the workplace (2014)
#110My office is switching to an open design. And none of the people who work there are happy about it. It was decided by the folks who own the company, several thousand miles away. I think the real allure of open offices is how they look. Open offices look modern . They look like the kind of working area a hip, young, collaborative, industry-disrupting company would favor. But that's all bullshit. It's just a fairy tale…
Don't forget management and guests being able to walk in to see if everyone is working.