Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial • Hacker News Board

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#101

Post by brightball » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:24 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #55

a_humean wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

Hillary also was resistant to the $15 minimum wage which would make a _huge_ difference for a lot of folks in the countryside. Hillary of course wanted to treat them like second-class citizens with only a $12 minimum. Who's going to go read white-papers after that sort of offer?

The $15 minimum wage would have devastated the countryside.

I'm all over something like a minimum basic income that would effectively do the same thing as doubling the minimum wage, without putting the cost burden on businesses that can't afford it.

The perk of a national $15 minimum wage is to remove any incentive US only businesses that may consider relocating to less expensive parts of the country. I'm sure it seems perfectly reasonable in a high cost of living area, but outside of that it's a jaw droppingly bad proposal.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#102

Post by Melk » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:25 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #92

We are so so so much better now that newspapers matter less and that the network news is not the main game in town. How does more sources make democracy worse even if it's "buyer beware?" it's arrogant to think truth is always hidden. We had a choice of candidates that was leftovers or diner food for Thanksgiving. That was the problem Do you really think the NYT will say good things in an op-ed about it's nimble youn…

No matter what your opinion is of mainstream media, replacing it with disinformation, half-truths, and fabrications is not an improvement.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#103

Post by tomp » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #53

MK999 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 Trump hit pieces in one day alone. More like establishment propaganda paper, I don't think they would have given Jeb Bush or Rubio such a hard time.

How, I wonder, do you report on a candidate, who we have a recording bragging about sexual assault, and avoid a "hit piece"? To make a derogatory article attacking trump literally all you have to do is quote what he's said on the record; No editorializing necessary.

Even labeling lewd sexualised comments ("locker talk") as "bragging about sexual assault" is bias. People have different ways of communicating that not everyone might agree with, but what you're doing is trivialising the victims of actual sexual assault.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#104

Post by jimbokun » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:27 PM UTC

MK999 wrote: post #31

RankingMember wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT? Really? I would agree if you were describing Huffington Post or various other left-wing rags, but the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

12 Trump hit pieces in one day alone. More like establishment propaganda paper, I don't think they would have given Jeb Bush or Rubio such a hard time.

Which of those pieces are you saying are inaccurate or untrue?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#105

Post by overgryphon » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:28 PM UTC

wavefunction wrote: post #55

a_humean wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except to be fair to the Dems and the Clinton campaign, they did have proposals and white papers addressing exactly these communities. For example, a proposal to invest $30 billion into coal mining communities within the Appalachia regions with promises for infrastructure investment and private business investment, and retraining former and current miners into new skilled occupations. Of course all of this pales in c…

Hillary also was resistant to the $15 minimum wage which would make a _huge_ difference for a lot of folks in the countryside. Hillary of course wanted to treat them like second-class citizens with only a $12 minimum. Who's going to go read white-papers after that sort of offer?

Clinton prefers a $12 minimum wage because outside of cities small business wouldn't be able to keep up with $15. Clinton wanted $15 minimum wage to be passed in cities that can handle it, and has explicitly supported people organizing those efforts.

From the primary debate:

"While Clinton believes $12 an hour is the right federal minimum, she is not steadfastly opposed to the idea of a $15 hourly minimum nationwide. On Thursday, CNN's Wolf Blitzer asked if she would sign a bill from Congress setting the federal minimum at that level (something that would be politically improbable). "Well, of course I would," she said."

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#106

Post by Tempest1981 » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

jondubois wrote: post #77

This is not so bad. I think that lies in the media are good if they help to balance public opinion. The world that I'm really scared of is one where everyone agrees about everything and people who disagree are locked up; that's where I saw things going before the election (when I thought that Hillary was going to win). Chaos and disagreement is one of the most important things in our society. We always need at least…

I wouldn't go so far as to say that lies are good. I'm in favor of a robust debate, but let's base it on facts, and even feelings/understanding. The last thing we need to do is mis-educate more people... that'll never lead to agreement.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#107

Post by pweissbrod » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

dariusm5 wrote: post #23

Considering that American's trust in mainstream media is an all time low [1], I'm sure there is a big demand for alternative news. I'm not surprised people are looking for content that fits their narrative and end up reading fake articles. As someone observing from Mexico, I noticed almost all of the mainstream US media became an echo chamber for pro-Clinton content. I only realized this after after seeing how Sander…

What defines a 'mainstream' media outlet anyways?

There were a handful of news outlets thoroughly reporting issues between DNC and Bernie Sanders such as Huffington Post and al-jazeera.

I suppose these are not 'mainstream'? Perhaps mainstream media is defined by having a dedicated TV channel, or at least primetime TV show? Isnt it almost customary for such outlets to prioritize ratings over comprehensive coverage?

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#108

Post by dclowd9901 » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

ThomPete wrote: post #11

I don't believe he is in denial at all. In fact the article strikes me as more of the same reason why so many voted for Trump. The people who write these articles just can't accept the idea that people didn't vote for Trump unless they were tricked into it, or were fed lies. The idea that because they have a different reality they based their votes on never occurred to them. What fake news do is reinoforce what peopl…

1) Anecdote is not evidence.

2) In one breath you dismiss this article as elitism, and in the very next admit the problem of fake news, which is exactly what this article is talking about. It's not another discussion. It is exactly this discussion. I've never seen such a blatant use of straw man.

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#109

Post by mr_spothawk » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:29 PM UTC

newdayrising wrote: post #16

If Hillary won this wouldn't have been an issue for the NYT. Close to the election I repeatedly saw articles comparing Trump to Hitler and predicting the end of free society of he were to win. The only fake news I saw was satirical "news." I did not vote for Trump, but it's crazy how hysterical and witch-hunty the left is right now.

not just crazy, it's legitimately scary. i have friends who's opinion and perspective i can usually trust makes making bold declarations about topics on which they are highly misinformed.

that's to say nothing of the calls for censure of thought-crime from the commenters on HN

Re: Mark Zuckerberg Is in Denial

#110

Post by jimbokun » Tue, Nov 15, 2016, 4:30 PM UTC

gthtjtkt wrote: post #37

RankingMember wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NYT? Really? I would agree if you were describing Huffington Post or various other left-wing rags, but the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper.

> the NYT is pretty far from a Democratic Propaganda paper. If that's true, why did the New York Times just apologize for their abysmal coverage of this election cycle? http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/13/us/elections/to-our-reader...

Which part of that is the apology?