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The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

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Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#101

Post by trentmb »

ptaipale wrote: post #59
tirant wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We evan had a nazi soldier become a Pope. But you're right, none of the allies war criminals was punished.

Do you say that Joseph Ratzinger was actually a Nazi, or just that he was a German soldier in Second World War? There's quite some difference. The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army" even though the country was lead by Nazis and even though modern click-baiting headlines equate the two. As far as I know, Ratzinger had nothing to do with National Socialism beyond what was compulsory and un…

> The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#102

Post by dignati »

berntb wrote: post #38
tobltobs wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digging out the wounded and dying is a subversive act?

It probably is -- from the viewpoint of those that bombs civilians with barrel bombs. (That said, for all I know the white helmets is a front for ISIS. But either way, the Assad junta and the Russians have an obvious interest in tarring them black.)

> That said, for all I know the white helmets is a front for ISIS

Never heard of this. Do you have a source?

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#103

Post by Shivetya »

ceronman wrote: post #19
pipio21 wrote: post #16

I was in Colombia two weeks ago. I am Spanish so I could talk with the people. Not everybody supports the "peace process" like any Western media displays. In Colombia lots of terrible things have happened. There is people that had made a fortune simply murdering and stealing entire families, and of course drugs. Peace process means legalization of all this crimes, and laundering all the money and power gotten mainly…

You are not well informed. In Colombia the majority of the victims of the conflict support the peace process. You can easily see it in the map of how the people voted and you’ll notice that those territories where the war was actually fought got the big majority of the votes supporting the peace treaty. The process didn't legalize the crimes nor allow the guerrilla to keep their drug dealing money. That's just FUD. T…

The process forgave atrocities and put some of the offenders into government jobs. I haven't seen a site that says otherwise. Sure their crimes aren't legalized but forgiveness isn't the same thing, it just acknowledges the crimes were crimes and won't be prosecuted.

Negotiating with terrorists where they get off the hook and even allowed to be part of government is not truly a good idea. Most likely the current regime went this way because of the incredible foreign aid they are betting on once a peace process is hammered out, I doubt they truly care that six million or so displaced people want to come back and there is no guarantee with a peace deal they actually will be able to do so.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#104

Post by makomk »

ghostly_s wrote: post #99
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of Nazi scientists and war criminals were given amnesty in the US Let me remind you that ALL the Allies war criminals were also basically given amnesty everywhere, just because they were victors. if you think that's fair, well that's your call.

You're alluding to the atomic bombings? Sorry, honestly not familiar with this argument.

Torture, rape, mass executions of civilians and prisoners of war, the usual.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#105

Post by htns »

trentmb wrote: post #101
ptaipale wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you say that Joseph Ratzinger was actually a Nazi, or just that he was a German soldier in Second World War? There's quite some difference. The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army" even though the country was lead by Nazis and even though modern click-baiting headlines equate the two. As far as I know, Ratzinger had nothing to do with National Socialism beyond what was compulsory and un…

> The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

That's just a poor article. The English Wikipedia in general is a horrible source on anything related to the Nazis.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#106

Post by ptaipale »

trentmb wrote: post #101
ptaipale wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you say that Joseph Ratzinger was actually a Nazi, or just that he was a German soldier in Second World War? There's quite some difference. The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army" even though the country was lead by Nazis and even though modern click-baiting headlines equate the two. As far as I know, Ratzinger had nothing to do with National Socialism beyond what was compulsory and un…

> The German army was just German army, not specifically a "Nazi army" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_Wehrmacht

German army was not "clean". They were involved in various atrocities. Other armies also were not "clean". But saying that each and every conscript soldier serving in German army was a Nazi is hyperbole. Even if you did not like Nazis, it was perfectly understandable to like their main adversary, the Soviet army, even less, and fight for your homeland.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#107

Post by drak0n1c »

Y201K wrote: post #83
forgotpwtomain wrote: post #65

After Obama got a peace prize, it's really hard to take any of this seriously.

Really, choosing Obama as the inflection point for the legitimacy of the prize is misplaced: Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973. While maybe Obama didn't do anything to deserve it, Kissinger arguably did do things that should have prevented him from being awarded it. https://youtu.be/DwGtctUYhRI?t=2475

Kissinger did help avoid western powers vs China becoming another cold war/north korea situation - he was surrounded by others who were relatively much more hawkish. In other areas he created and lengthened conflicts by aiding embattled forces (maybe he mistakenly thought it would benefit the free world, or hasten the end of conflict), but there is a question of proportion - did he create net peace or net war? Of course we can't know for certain had things gone differently. Yasser Arafat was even awarded the peace prize for his change of behavior late in life, despite his decades of fomenting terrorism and conflict, so it is not surprising that Kissinger won.

Perhaps the award should only go to pacifists who have spotless records, regardless of how little impact they may have had?

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#108

Post by yabatopia »

ghostly_s wrote: post #99
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of Nazi scientists and war criminals were given amnesty in the US Let me remind you that ALL the Allies war criminals were also basically given amnesty everywhere, just because they were victors. if you think that's fair, well that's your call.

You're alluding to the atomic bombings? Sorry, honestly not familiar with this argument.

The atomic bombings are the most prominent examples, but there were also the horrible. 'conventional' bombings of German cities like Dresden.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#109

Post by neves »

diegorbaquero wrote: post #84
neves wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For how long would they receive the money? Economically it makes sense. You will have thousands of people which only work skill is to combat. With the end of the guerrilla, they won't immediately find jobs. If they don't have money, they will become thugs.

2 years. It's cheaper to do that than to continue the war.

This is darn cheap. I can't understand how someone in her senses can be against it.

Re: The Nobel Peace Prize 2016: Juan Manuel Santos

#110

Post by nommm-nommm »

ghostly_s wrote: post #99
ekianjo wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Plenty of Nazi scientists and war criminals were given amnesty in the US Let me remind you that ALL the Allies war criminals were also basically given amnesty everywhere, just because they were victors. if you think that's fair, well that's your call.

You're alluding to the atomic bombings? Sorry, honestly not familiar with this argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_war_crimes_during_World...
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