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Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

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Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#101

Post by mc32 »

throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

They definitely missed the point about ugly fruit and vegetables. From speaking to some of the vendors of cheaper fruits and veggies at farmer's markets, some of them (but not all) buy the second dibs (what the supermarkets and their other obligations don't buy) as well as more irregular fruit and produce.

Now, of course there is a growing ugly fruit and vegetable movement[1]. It's becoming more mainstream and even Whole Foods is buying in[2]. There is an effort in Boston to provide good affordable ugly fruit and vegetables to underserved communities.

[1]http://www.eatingwell.com/food_news_origins/love_ugly_fruits...

[2]http://www.eater.com/2016/3/8/11178270/whole-foods-ugly-prod...

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#102

Post by JabavuAdams »

danramteke wrote: post #98
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

Is there away to say your meaning, but without the ethnic slur for being cheated financially?

To be fair, many educated and articulate people are totally unaware of this connotation.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#103

Post by aj7 »

sukilot wrote: post #88
akiselev wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices…

Trade Joe's entire reason for existence is that most of their stuff, both packages and produce. is cheaper than other area stores. There are a private label store.

This is a common myth. I've concluded Trader Joe's exists to give a veneer of guilt-free-ness to buying junk food. Avoid the cheese and meat at all costs.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#104

Post by [deleted] »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90
throwaway_bob wrote: post #63

I lived on henry street for a while, and I can't say that I know anything about the back end of the distribution network, but I can say this article is missing a lot of things about the front end. The produce is cheaper than a standard western store, but the quality is much more varied. Moreover, the market (in the economic sense) seems really efficient. If you see something cheap in Manhattan chinatown in every stor…

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

[deleted]

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#105

Post by akiselev »

ceejayoz wrote: post #94
akiselev wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bacteria can't be effectively washed off with water, which is why we use chemical abrasives and surfactants like toothpaste and soap when brushing our teeth or washing our hands. I don't know anyone who uses dish soap on their lettuce and grocery store outbreaks of food borne illness are a regular occurence, just not as sensationalized as the outbreaks at national fast food chains.

The FDA recommends running water ( http://www.fda.gov/AboutFDA/Transparency/Basics/ucm194327.ht... ) - it won't get rid of 100%, but it definitely reduces bacterial load ( https://extension.umaine.edu/publications/4336e/ ). Teeth are different - they spend 24/7 in a great environment for bacterial growth (warm, wet, and with frequent bursts of sugar/nutrients).

Hence the "effectively" qualifier. The physical force of running water is enough to wash off the top layers of microbes but even a small amount of bacteria can cause food borne illness so no matter what you do there will be a risk. If you dive deeper into the FDA recommendations there are toxicity reasons for not using soap or dish fluid and they actually recommend using a brush to clean firm vegetables and fruits because the abrasive movement is far more effective.

I recommend reading the CDC's studies of outbreaks which point out that in many instances the source is cross contamination of bacteria that can't be washed off due to specific molecules that adhere to the surface of produce. The CDC deals with crises and it's in a better position to study food borne illness than the FDA, which provides general advice with nearly a century of history tracing back to the progressive movement in the US. That advice is not necessarily up to date since our treatment of food has evolved to included irradiation, waxing, safety codes, etc. which get the vast majority of microbes to begin with.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#106

Post by spraak »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #91
jimmywanger wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's an ethnic thing. But I definitely think it's a cultural thing. I agree with you about how many generations-removed you are from food production. Rather, how many steps/middlemen you're used to. For example: China is still a developing country with a generally low per capita income. You're intimately familiar with the seasons, and what's available when, and what it takes to get your food. Few can af…

This is almost right...but the western style supermarkets in China like bgh are still very Chinese. A lot of produce comes shrink wrapped, which is something I have never seen in the states before! And it is annoying, because they will hide wilted leaves under good ones...damn it. In general, I find shopping for veggies in China nerve wracking, and it's mostly my Chinese wife doing the picking while I'm just waiting…

In Hawai'i produce shipped from the mainland can come shrink wrapped, such as cabbage. But also there is a lot of local produce here, so it's easy to avoid that. I think mostly it's also the "Western" style to ship something all the way to Hawai'i when it is growing not too far from the store itself.. a lot of local people shop at stores like Safeway that stock shipped produce.. it's unfortunate but it seems to be cheaper.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#107

Post by pkaye »

jimmywanger wrote: post #80
driverdan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

My main point is that most western groceries have an expectation of having any produce in any season, eg apples during the summer and peaches during the winter. Whole Food is just an example of a national food chain most people are familiar with. For example, outside of the west coast, nobody knows what an Albertson's is. And outside of the midwest, nobody knows what a HyVee is.

What about Trader Joe's? Good quality at more reasonable prices.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#108

Post by admksx45v65uqpw »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #67
driverdan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how muc…

Whole Foods and Safeway are both expensive in the Bay Area. You want something cheap, go to Lucky's.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#109

Post by elliotec »

JabavuAdams wrote: post #99
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And this describes grocery shopping in China, not just Chinatown. I look forward to the day I can just go to a western supermarket and not have to worry about getting jipped on veggies...save so much work even if they cost a lot more money.

FYI "jipped" is actually spelled "gypped", which is a slur against Gypsies. I only raise this because I used to say it a lot, and was unaware of its etymology and connotations.

I'm in favor of re-spelling it as jipped, and removing the old connotation, because most people don't know that and it is a pretty common word now.

Re: Why Fruits and Veggies Are So Cheap in Chinatown

#110

Post by admksx45v65uqpw »

Havoc wrote: post #79
jonknee wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How do these markets avoid food poisoning their customers? Are the meat makers, distributors and retailers wholly separate? Do farmers of Asian vegetables avoid fertilising with manure? By not being a juicy target for a lawsuit. These are mom and pop shops that would just disappear into the ether if there was a big foodborne illness outbreak linked to their wares. They're also not selling prepared food--if you serv…

>They're also not selling prepared food--if you serve unsafe food that is because you did not prepare it correctly. Well a lot of fruit & veg is consumed raw so "prepare it correctly" is of limited use.

I have some bad news for you: you're supposed to be washing that food before you eat it.
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