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Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

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Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#101

Post by Loughla »

WDCDev wrote: post #68
superuser2 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People want large, busybody police departments and they don't want to pay the taxes that entails. Police departments found a way to fund themselves without pissing off anyone who matters politically.

Police unions want large busybody departments and they don't care who pays. They just know that once a new police officer is hired SOMEONE will pay.

No, people want large, busybody departments. It makes them feel safe. They don't want to increase their taxes, though, especially in conservative states such as Oklahoma.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#102

Post by eonw »

brbsix wrote: post #67
diyorgasms wrote: post #27

I've seen it said before and I'll say it again. Anyone who works for companies who make products like this in any capacity should be blacklisted in the industry. The missing scruples here could fill several large containers.

I've always wondered about the people engineering devices like this, the people at Harris Corp. creating Stingrays and other surveillance platforms, how they feel about their work. Listing individual employees might be a bit much, but we could certainly create one of companies involved. Unfortunately I fear it would be a long list.

im sure their most important hiring aspect is a certain mindset. once you get someone truly believing they are working on the side of good, they will do just about anything. zealotry is alive and well.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#103

Post by fennecfoxen »

viggity wrote: post #31
jobu wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed: "We've seen single mom's stuff be taken, a cancer survivor his drugs taken, we saw a Christian band being taken. We've seen innocent people's stuff being taken. We've seen where the money goes and how it's been misspent," Loveless said. It boggles the mind that this doesn't violate due process.

The despicable logic they use is that they're not charging the person with a crime (because people have due process rights), they're charging an inanimate object, the money, the car, etc. Property doesn't have due process rights, apparently. Seriously. If you look at the court cases for asset forfeitures, it is titled "The State of Oklahoma vs $1,534.32 in cash" or "Iowa vs 2014 Mercedes".

Well, the real funny asset-forfeiture case names are United States v. Article Consisting of 50,000 Cardboard Boxes More or Less, Each Containing One Pair of Clacker Balls and United States v. Approximately 64,695 Pounds of Shark Fins.

But the likes of United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency is obviously more dangerous than either of those:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U...

And the list of cases here is hilarious as well: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_rem_jurisdiction

like United States v. 11 1/4 Dozen Packages of Articles Labeled in Part Mrs. Moffat’s Shoo-Fly Powders for Drunkenness, or United States v. One Book Called Ulysses, United States v. One Tyrannosaurus Bataar Skeleton, or Marcus v. Search Warrant of Property at 104 East Tenth Street, Kansas City, Missouri, or R.M.S. Titanic, Inc. v. The Wrecked and Abandoned Vessel, R.M.S. Titanic ...

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#104

Post by eonw »

From Article: "If you can prove that you have a legitimate reason to have that money it will be given back to you. And we've done that in the past," Vincent said about any money seized.

Under no circumstance should i have to PROVE where my money came from nor how i got it. this is assumed guilt and utterly unamerican IMO. Where is the burden of proof that must be reached before taking my assets and forcing me to prove that i have the right to have them. OK = backwoods state full of backwoods laws, and apparently backwoods people that keep voting for these types of idiots.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#105

Post by brbsix »

technofiend wrote: post #44

Thus begins a new round of escalation and avoidance - cash is seized? No longer carry it. Credit Cards maxed? Keep it in a separate account and load only as required. In an account but you can direct funds from your phone? Hand that over. At some point you just rely on biometrics for every transaction, it turns into an automated shakedown scheme or you just learn to avoid the state of Oklahoma.

What do you think will happen if you're arrested with a thumbprint lock on your phone? They may not be able to force you to recite your password (at least without lengthy legal proceedings beforehand), but they can certainly grab your finger and use it to unlock the device. They may not be able to do this if you've only been detained, but I wouldn't chance it.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#106

Post by waterphone »

nappy-doo wrote: post #15

My understanding with asset seizure is that you can show why the money was yours, and it is returned. What happens to the 7.7% taken by the servicer? Is it automatically returned as well?

While your understanding is technically correct, it's nowhere near that simple and usually costs more than the money lost in legal fees to win a case like this and get your seized assets back.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#107

Post by technofiend »

brbsix wrote: post #105
technofiend wrote: post #44

Thus begins a new round of escalation and avoidance - cash is seized? No longer carry it. Credit Cards maxed? Keep it in a separate account and load only as required. In an account but you can direct funds from your phone? Hand that over. At some point you just rely on biometrics for every transaction, it turns into an automated shakedown scheme or you just learn to avoid the state of Oklahoma.

What do you think will happen if you're arrested with a thumbprint lock on your phone? They may not be able to force you to recite your password (at least without lengthy legal proceedings beforehand), but they can certainly grab your finger and use it to unlock the device. They may not be able to do this if you've only been detained, but I wouldn't chance it.

That's my point - you need legislative relief because any lock has a law-enforcement key.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#108

Post by gherkin0 »

nxzero wrote: post #73
milge wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way police corruption would be fixed if the good eggs didn't protect the bad ones.

Poor comparison and illogical too. "Bad cops" have committed acts which are illegal; where were illegal acts committed in the story? Even if organizationally there wasn't a tendency to protect the organization, this would not end the issue.

The acts may not be "illegal" but they are unjust and immoral.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#109

Post by cglace »

ikeboy wrote: post #11

>The largest part that we have found ... the biggest benefit has been the identity theft, Oh, so if I have a card in someone else's name, you'll charge it, thus causing someone who doesn't even know about it to lose? Any lawyers here want to weigh in on whether this would be identity theft/credit card fraud/etc on the part of the police and hence illegal? Isn't scanning/charging a card without authorization illegal?

>Oh, so if I have a card in someone else's name, you'll charge it, thus causing someone who doesn't even know about it to lose?

From what I understand the technology is for seizing money from prepaid cards. For other cards it just looks up information about the account. Thats how it helps with identity theft.

Re: Police use new device to seize money in bank accounts or on prepaid cards

#110

Post by brbsix »

Roboprog wrote: post #79

Welcome to the post-Reagan era, kids. This stuff really took off during the 80s war on drugs. (which is about as successful as the war on alcohol was - for gangsters dealing) If only Thatcherism / Reaganism never happened... (and Laffer, Friedman and all the other related right wing propaganda that's been catapulted down our throats) I suppose things will eventually get bad enough that people will eventually realize…

Is Nixon nowhere to be found?
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