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Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

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Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#101
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely curious who you think would give you flak. Publishers? Your department faculty? The librarian at your university? Your peers? (reason I'm interested: I'm on the board of Sage and have a board meeting tomorrow where I hope we'll be discussing sci-hub)

SAGE Publications' busts of the peer review and citation ring back in 2014 was great work. Might it be possible for you to expand on SAGE's position of Sci-Hub?

There's no official position. It's a messy issue, with what I'm sure are lots of conflicting opinions among various people at Sage. I don't see perfectly eye to eye on this with other board members (one of whom is my father) or upper management. That's not a bad thing. The issue of paywalls and piracy is a really complicated thing, even though most HN commenters would make it seem like a black and white good vs bad issue.

Sage is in a particularly interesting position because we serve so much of the humanities and social sciences (HSS). In STM you can make the legit argument that all published research should be open access and the cost of that should come out of the same funding that funded the research (ie NIH or private funding agencies). But in the social sciences there isn't the same funding picture.

So even if we decided we were going to be super ambitious and flip all of our journals tomorrow to author-pays OA, it's hard to imagine that working in HSS. What would end up happening? Hard to say, but my guess is that a lot of our journals would collapse for lack of submissions and the vast majority of the content would go to our competitors' paywall journals. And remember that a lot of our journals are academic society journals and the societies rely on the journal revenue to operate. So it would also meant the implosion of significant societies that currently serve their members (well, in reality it would just mean they'd migrate their journals to another paywall publisher).

The whole thing is super messy and complicated. The competing interests of societies, academics, universities, funding bodies, tenure committees, etc all make it a big complicated mess (particularly when focusing on HSS). I wish we could have some of these debates in forums like HN in an intelligent way, but that's pretty hard to do given how quickly the pitchforks come out.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#102
post #4

"As a result of the legal battle the site (sci-hub.io) just lost one of its latest domain names. However, the site has no intentions of backing down, and will continue its fight to keep access to scientific knowledge free and open." Does this not enrage people? Elsevier and closed-access journals like them, are doing all they can to impede human progress while leaching off of tax-payer dollars to do so. Something sho…

"Does this not enrage people?"

I think I have rage-fatigue, with all the swindles, con-jobs and injustices I've seen. But I do recognize this as utter bullshit. Though unfortunately every other effort to take from the commons, charge money for it, and build a private fortune, throughout history, has also been bullshit; hence the rage-fatigue.

This and things like it, do enrage people, and that's why in the US they gravitate toward Sanders, Trump, nihilism, and crime.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#103
post #80
post #45

I feel a little tingle of excitement seeing my own papers on Sci-Hub. I mean I get that they're trying to index all publications so it's not a "stamp or approval" or anything... but it does mean that people can actually access the knowledge I tried to throw into the world, which was kind of the whole point in doing it. I'd update my academic website to link my papers to their sci-hub URLs if I didn't think I'd catch…

IEEE and IEEE Explore have been actively going after professors and forcing them to take down links to their own papers. In the past, many professors hosted pdf's on their websites for their papers -- this has only stopped because IEEE has been forcing them off. Just wanted to add this for those who think professors have 'suddenly become stingy' -- no, they aren't - they were forced to.

Citation needed. I have been hosting various IEEE papers on my websites for years and have never heard from IEEE.

My understanding is that CS publishers tolerate researchers hosting their own papers, but I'm very interested in evidence suggesting otherwise.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#104
post #28

(Thanks for daveguy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11593881 ) https://31.184.194.81/ (sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.cc (same ip as above, sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.ac (same ip as above, sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.bz (uses a separate certificate and ip address -- 104.28.20.155) And a tor site: scihub22266oqcxt.onion

twitter: https://twitter.com/sci_hub

vkontakte: http://vk.com/sci_hub

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#105
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anybody know a linux script/software that would 'lock' a domain down to am IP regardless what the registrar does. Maybe have even a out of band way of updating it without the registrars involvement. I guess what I'm looking for would be P2P DNS server although making sure the data is not fake would be difficult without some kind of signing. Wonder if it could use the bitcoin ledger as a kind of key server? Edit: I kn…

echo "google.com 127.0.0.1" >> /etc/hosts

Would need to be www.google.com to be effective, this just breaks the redirect.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#106
post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyways, if the research was funded through public money, it gets published for free anyways. It does? I'm genuinely curious. The vast majority of research is funded with public money (to some extent). Where is all this publicly-funded research published?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed Now, there is a delay (1 year?) between when it's published in a journal and when it's freely released, which I can understand bothers people, but it does eventually make it's way out to the public domain.

This seems to be only NIH-funded medical research. While it's nice to see, that's far from the only federally funded research.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#107
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Typesetting Trivial >third party review Trivial, and happens just fine without publisher "help" >offering visibility in a high quality journal? Most journals are not "high quality." They're often very niche efforts, sometimes started and run as an easy way to get publication credits outside the handful of prestige publications. Ambitious academics know that one way to raise your profile is to organise your own confe…

Trivial Obviously that's your opinion, but since when does the effort it takes to create something matter about the price? It's pretty trivial to move product from a factory to a retail store, yet people have no problem paying for that. And again, if it's trivial, then there is nothing stopping anyone from starting their own journal. But amazingly, nobody has done that. What's the saying about "find out why the fence…

The effort to create something has always factored into the price. It's not the only factor, but it's there. Additionally, I take the main point of the response of "trivial" (in the case of typesetting it's often just providing a bundle of extra tex files to recompile your paper with) as less a remark on the price, and more a remark on the work. The question you answered was what work the publishers are doing, with the underlying qualifier of [to justify/correlate with their price] and the direct followup you didn't speculate on asking about what they charge for each item of work. It's like answering "what do doctors do to command such a high price?" with "scribble on a piece of paper". OK, let's assume that's really a good description of the work they provide, how much specifically do they charge for it? The full fee? Great, this exercise wasn't helpful at all. Can we break the work down into smaller units and try to estimate costs for each, whether those costs are "reasonable" or "unreasonable"? When I pay $30 for a single paper, what parts of the work endeavor does each dollar go to? We can even take into account fuzzy second-order fees like "well you're really paying back into the massive amount of work they did beforehand so they can scribble the right things now" when we're out of other ideas, but I can't imagine much of that $30 going specifically to the work of "typesetting" because it's so trivial.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#108
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A pirated book likely came from a purchased original.

Yes, a pirated book is often a illegal copy of a legal original. But every copy in a library is legally paid for - and they expect you to return the copies you borrow when you're done with them, because they would have to buy more otherwise. Libraries don't undermine copyright law, they depend on it for their survival.

But the damages are still done. By having a library where people can get a book for free instead of buying it, even though there is some throughput limits, they still make it so that the media is no longer consumed.

Imagine a pirating service which ensures that a given file is only being consumed by one machine at a time. So if I want to watch the newest blockbuster, I have to wait my turn, and once watched, I cannot watch it again (without getting in line). In effect, the movie is checked out a single instance at a time, just like how a library checks out a single book at a time.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#109
Recently shared this here: http://www.thebookseller.com/news/elsevier-defends-its-value... (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11614926) which I'm guessing is the precursor to this debacle.

Reading what Elsevier have to say, you'd think they're either completely delusional (I doubt so), or know full well that they're rapidly becoming irrelevant/abhorred and are adopting a bully position, all the while pretending to be innocent and blameless victims of this situation.

Don't count on me to shed a tear when Elsevier go under.

Re: Elsevier Complaint Shuts Down Sci-Hub Domain Name

#110
post #99
post #28

(Thanks for daveguy: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11593881 ) https://31.184.194.81/ (sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.cc (same ip as above, sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.ac (same ip as above, sci-hub.io cert) https://sci-hub.bz (uses a separate certificate and ip address -- 104.28.20.155) And a tor site: scihub22266oqcxt.onion

Guys, I have a question. If it's this simple to put a server into the onion, why are people not doing this with torrent trackers? I'm thinking specifically about thepiratebay.org which is still banned in the UK (at the ISP level, I believe). Then mirrors appear and then the mirrors get banned? Why not just put it into the onion? Put it there once, problem solved.

Perhaps the primary reason is accessibility. Onion addresses are not easily memorized. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zooko%27s_triangle

I believe this inconvenience is minor, however.

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