What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed • Hacker News Board

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#101

Post by ptaipale » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 9:49 AM UTC

Spooky23 wrote: post #63

barrkel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed he may be, but the case of Herrera v. Collins is pretty clear - laws are about procedures, not facts. If someone has been found guilty in a trial, and there were no flaws in the prodecures followed, then it is not unconstitutional to follow through with the punishment, even if later evidence shows the person is innocent. More importantly, it would be procedurally problematic if convicted criminals could appeal…

Convictions get vacated when an alternate perpetrator is identified or confesses.

Still, that alternate confession must be credible. For high-profile crimes, there often seem to be dozens of alternate confessions, and they are usually obviously untrue so they should not be grounds for appeal of the convicted.

The hard part is how to establish that alternate confessions or new evidence are really significant (as they indeed sometimes are).

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#102

Post by bb101 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 10:15 AM UTC

I don't get it. Cooper's stay of execution was granted in 2004, most probably due to facts that became known at the time. This article was published in 2016, and he is still in prison - for the same crime? Twelve years have passed and no progress has been made in determining whether Cooper was responsible or not?

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#103

Post by jakub_h » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 10:34 AM UTC

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #46

the_ancient wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Why are you allowed to murder someone in self-defense, but not as a punishment for crimes? The principle of Self Ownership, which is the basis of the philosophy of liberty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9srplWe_QQ It would not be murder to protect your own life from the aggression of others. However any use of violence must be in proportion to the threat to your life. I.e I do not believe you have the right to ki…

If capital punishment is murder, then taxation is theft.

Is paying for services theft?

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#104

Post by rwjwjuwjudf » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 10:52 AM UTC

jakub_h wrote: post #103

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If capital punishment is murder, then taxation is theft.

Is paying for services theft?

I dunno, I'm not a libertarian :)

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#105

Post by zo1 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 12:00 PM UTC

jakub_h wrote: post #103

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If capital punishment is murder, then taxation is theft.

Is paying for services theft?

Why don't you rephrase that with the appropriate level of detail and not leaving out important facts: Is not wanting to pay for something that you were given and didn't explicitly request theft? And yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist and jumping in here.

There are a slew of assumptions that are being made when arguing for a pro-state stance. Eventually, you'll stumble on this thing called the "social contract", and then magically all questions of validity are somehow answered. It's a convenient answer devoid of any first-principles, that many are content with using as a basis to defend the status-quo of the existence of a state.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#106

Post by zo1 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 12:03 PM UTC

the_ancient wrote: post #41

function_seven wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sincere question. Why are you allowed to murder someone in self-defense, but not as a punishment for crimes? What moral code do you rely on that draws the line there? Why is that moral code more correct than one that draws the line between punishment and capricious violence? FWIW, I'm somewhere between you and OP in my thoughts. Definitely against the death penalty in practice , and somewhat ambivalent in theory. But…

>>Why are you allowed to murder someone in self-defense, but not as a punishment for crimes? The principle of Self Ownership, which is the basis of the philosophy of liberty https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9srplWe_QQ It would not be murder to protect your own life from the aggression of others. However any use of violence must be in proportion to the threat to your life. I.e I do not believe you have the right to ki…

Self-ownership... Then you could theoretically "cede" that ownership of your own body to someone else like a family-member / spouse (perhaps a will, or have it done prior-to-death). And thus, in that frame of reference murder becomes an extreme form of theft.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#107

Post by the_ancient » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 12:03 PM UTC

jakub_h wrote: post #103

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If capital punishment is murder, then taxation is theft.

Is paying for services theft?

If your window is broken and I replace your window but take your TV as payment, did I steal your TV?

Maybe you had a different window you wanted, or maybe you did not want to replace it at all.

"Paying for services" implies some kind of voluntary exchange. Government is not voluntary, government is violence, and any "service" provided by government is done so at gun point under the threat of violence and paid for in the same manner.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#108

Post by jakub_h » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 1:03 PM UTC

the_ancient wrote: post #107

jakub_h wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is paying for services theft?

If your window is broken and I replace your window but take your TV as payment, did I steal your TV? Maybe you had a different window you wanted, or maybe you did not want to replace it at all. "Paying for services" implies some kind of voluntary exchange. Government is not voluntary, government is violence, and any "service" provided by government is done so at gun point under the threat of violence and paid for in…

Yes, yes, you and the guy above are Americans, I get that. Me, I'm from Europe. I guess we see things differently.

Of course, none of us here has a country that would demand such ridiculous things as income taxes from expats, so I see where that may come from.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#109

Post by rwjwjuwjudf » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 1:05 PM UTC

zo1 wrote: post #105

jakub_h wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is paying for services theft?

Why don't you rephrase that with the appropriate level of detail and not leaving out important facts: Is not wanting to pay for something that you were given and didn't explicitly request theft? And yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist and jumping in here. There are a slew of assumptions that are being made when arguing for a pro-state stance. Eventually, you'll stumble on this thing called the "social contract", and then…

There's no such thing as no state. For any conflict, whoever wins is the de facto state.

Re: What It’s Like to Almost Get Executed

#110

Post by zo1 » Sun, Apr 03, 2016, 1:21 PM UTC

rwjwjuwjudf wrote: post #109

zo1 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you rephrase that with the appropriate level of detail and not leaving out important facts: Is not wanting to pay for something that you were given and didn't explicitly request theft? And yes, I'm an anarcho-capitalist and jumping in here. There are a slew of assumptions that are being made when arguing for a pro-state stance. Eventually, you'll stumble on this thing called the "social contract", and then…

There's no such thing as no state. For any conflict, whoever wins is the de facto state.

I think you'd get disagreements from both sides of the fence on that definition of a state.