Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter • Hacker News Board

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#101

Post by refurb » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 1:57 PM UTC

arbitrage wrote: post #68

Asbostos wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Prices for anything don't have to be justified. The market decides them. It turns out that people really want to pay those publishers, so they can charge high fees. It also turns out scientists really want to publish their work in those closed-access journals. Whatever attracts them to do that is what justifies the high prices. What attracts them? Universities use them as a proxy to judge job applicants. Blame univer…

The market is being unfairly controlled by oligopolists, if not straight out monopolists in many areas. This is not free market doctrine. This is econ 101 on how to subvert the free market.

How is it a monopoly situation? There are multiple journals out there where scientists can publish their work. They could also start their own journal (open-access if they like) without many barriers.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#102

Post by chrisBob » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:06 PM UTC

I upload my papers through Researchgate. I know that it may not be legal to do so, but it is password protected, and hasn't been challenged by too many publishers. Sharing this way makes great sense for the author. You want people to read your paper, and it gives a way to do so. You must create an account, but many papers that would otherwise be blocked can be found this way.

The other trick I recommend people try if they frequently have trouble finding papers is to try EndNote. It is a little expensive, but I found it to be great at finding papers that I couldn't get through the official sources with my school's access.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#103

Post by TheCondor » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:12 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #56

masklinn wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's a cheaper solution for foundational papers. Go to your library and use interlibrary loan. Not sure that's really an option when not in the US.

I can't claim to know across the world, but in much of Europe you can get a 'visitor' subscription to university libraries for some nominal fee (50 euros or so in my nearest library; hell, enrolling in a Belgian university as a student costs 70 euros per year, which gives you access to the library, e-journals, email, Eduroam, the whole shebang). I get a little irked every time this topic comes up, and people go on an…

The $30 isnt so much a fee as it is a stupid tax. If you are too stupid to go to a library, you have to pay the tax...

What's more, you might be amazed at the lengths librarians will go to help you. Just because it's not on the shelf doesn't mean they don't have access to it or won't get access to it. real science journals are a special case too, they take a lot of space, they get very little actual use, the librarians want them to be read, they'll go above and beyond for a reader.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#104

Post by RobertKerans » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:14 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #100

ar-jan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last week linguists issued Elsevier an ultimatum, demanding fair open access for the journal Lingua [0,1]: > We asked for the following: 1) The journal is transferred to full Open Access status, 2) Article Processing Charges (APCs) cost 400 euros, 3) The copyright of articles remains with the authors, 4) The journal henceforth operates under a cc-by licence, 5) Ownership of the journal is transferred to the collectiv…

Now it looks like Elsevier is not going to cooperate Are we really surprised? How would you feel if some of your customers demanded you turn your business over to them for zero compensation? I wish the linguists all the luck in the world starting their new, open-access journal.

Sure, you'd be peeved, but if the businesses in question is parasitic it's extremely difficult to raise even a modicum of sympathy

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#105

Post by montecarl » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:20 PM UTC

JupiterMoon wrote: post #69

xefer wrote: post #53

I've had over 100% luck emailing papers' authors directly asking for a copy of a particular paper I've been interested in reading. I typically get a PDF emailed back to me. I say "over 100%" because several times I've had hard copies sent for whatever reason with hand-written letters thanking me for expressing interest in their research and letting me know they'd be happy to answer any questions, etc. I've generally…

When you publish get generally get sent a stack of hard copies for distribution to whoever you feel like sending to (usually far more than you have people to send to). Sending the reprints is legal. Sending the pdf is either illegal or legal or more likely a huge grey area which as an author you can't be bothered to work out. Postage is free in most academic departments and not much harder than sending an email. Ther…

Several professors I know publish all their papers on their university/government lab hosted website and have never received any take down notices. When you use Google scholar to search for one of their papers there is a link directly to the pdf hosted by them. Many professors feel that the papers are theirs to redistribute as they wish even if copyright says otherwise. But I do understand why some authors might feel wary of this.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#106

Post by baghira » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:27 PM UTC

sawwit wrote: post #95

baghira wrote: post #74

It puzzles me that the most significant problem with open access receives little mention, in discussions on HN: it changes the incentives structure of publication, from one where the publisher has to please the ones buying the journal to one where the it has to please the people paying to submit articles. This is what makes the situation profoundly more complex compared to other application of copyright, say in the s…

> … it changes the incentives structure of publication, from one where the publisher has to please the ones buying the journal to one where the it has to please the people paying to submit articles. I always thought publishing will be free/payed by taxes in an open access world like on arXiv.org.

Right, but in that case you lose completely the crucial gatekeeping function. Already now arxiv.org is full of papers with glaring technical and conceptual mistakes. Imagine what would happen if submissions to arxiv.org where they way one decides who to promote.

At the cost of being a retrograde, I believe that this sort of things cannot be settled simply "the google way" i.e. 1. Count the citations. 2. Make a list. 3. Profit.

You need to "force" people to review their papers, correct mistakes, and in a sense establish what is worth other people time. Journal editors and reviwers screw up all the time, no doubt, but the burden of proof is on those arguing that "drop it on arxiv, let the review count do the scoring" is a better system.

Also, once you drag the taxpayer in, you have to figure out who polices the archive, least it becomes crackpot central: should they be elected? Should they be appointed? Who should pay them? What about conflicts of interest?

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#107

Post by k2enemy » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

Asbostos wrote: post #21

kragen wrote: post #11

The only "online piracy" I see here is when Elsevier demands US$30 from you to get a copy of a paper written by scientists paid for by your tax dollars, who paid Elsevier page fees to publish it . Elsevier and similar companies are the thieves here, and they have a hell of a lot of nerve to be accusing scientists of "stealing" and "piracy" for working to create the very knowledge Elsevier shamelessly exploits. (Even…

Scientists still love giving up their rights to Elsevier though. They're as much to blame as the publisher. Maybe something would start to happen if scientists preferentially avoided citing non-openly published papers. They won't though, because their work is too competitive, but it might help to put a damper on it.

No, everyone hates it. But that is the equilibrium that we're in. Everyone wishes we were in a different equilibrium with open-access online journals, but that's the tricky thing about equilibria -- nobody wants to unilaterally deviate from the status quo.

Some fields (like math) seem to be pulling it off, but it takes a group of leaders in the field to coordinate a change in publishing models.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#108

Post by JupiterMoon » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:28 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #60

knlje wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also don't like it but the paper needs be printed and reviewed. This is not free. I have peer reviewed various academic papers for Elsevier without receiving any monetary compensation. Moreover, quite small amount of academic papers is read in a printed form, at least among my colleagues. Where the money goes to?

You think the paper is free? You think the editors, typesetters etc are free? I'm not saying it should be as expensive as it is, I'm saying if you want to distribute for free, the publishing party (the research group) will have to pay more or the journal will have to take less profits.

Online only is perfectly fine today. Also typesetting can be taken care of by authors + some scripts. Peer review is free.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#109

Post by c3534l » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:31 PM UTC

Aww. Scientists are adorable.

Re: Academics sharing paywalled papers with a codeword on Twitter

#110

Post by JupiterMoon » Wed, Oct 21, 2015, 2:35 PM UTC

montecarl wrote: post #105

JupiterMoon wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you publish get generally get sent a stack of hard copies for distribution to whoever you feel like sending to (usually far more than you have people to send to). Sending the reprints is legal. Sending the pdf is either illegal or legal or more likely a huge grey area which as an author you can't be bothered to work out. Postage is free in most academic departments and not much harder than sending an email. Ther…

Several professors I know publish all their papers on their university/government lab hosted website and have never received any take down notices. When you use Google scholar to search for one of their papers there is a link directly to the pdf hosted by them. Many professors feel that the papers are theirs to redistribute as they wish even if copyright says otherwise. But I do understand why some authors might feel…

I think that that certain US government grant money prevents full copyright assignment. These professors are probably fully within their rights to self host copies of their work. This is why I said sometimes legal and sometimes a grey area..