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The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

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Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#101

Post by TillE »

pyvpx wrote: post #15
TillE wrote: post #3

The government's actual "solution" to this problem has been to raise the fee of renouncing citizenship, from $450 to $2,350. No problem for wealthy people who want to avoid tax, but quite a large burden on everyone else. I plan to become a German citizen eventually, because I'm probably going to retire here. But thanks to Germany's disallowance of naturalized dual citizenship and America's tax complexities, that requ…

I keep seeing people repeat this, yet I can't find any information to confirm it. you can become a German citizen and still retain your US citizenship, from everything I've read and everyone I've asked on the matter.

To expand on what everyone else has already said, most people holding American/German dual citizenship have a German parent.

There are a few other rare exceptions. But it is completely impossible under the standard naturalization process, which requires you to renounce any previous citizenship.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#102

Post by deong »

ptaipale wrote: post #95
deong wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually talked with an accountant in the US my first tax year living year, and her advice was "don't use an accountant". I have no idea if this is true or not, but according to her, the IRS's view is basically, "we know this is complicated stuff, so do your best, and if you make a mistake, no big deal", whereas if you hire an accountant and get something wrong, the assumption is that you're trying to avoid taxes.

That advice sounds to me a bit like if you go on trial for some small thing (let's say a pub brawl), and you're told "don't get a lawyer, it will make you look bad". Perhaps it is sometimes a good advice, but it can also be a spectacularly bad one.

Yeah, I was a bit leery as well, but my situation isn't that complicated, so I saved the money and did it myself. Will update from prison later if it comes to that. :)

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#103

Post by mikeash »

onli wrote: post #97
mikeash wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that was the point made in the article, and it's the point I disagree with. My members of Congress represented me just as much when I lived abroad as they do now. Expats absolutely do have elected officials who are supposed to represent them.

> Expats absolutely do have elected officials who are supposed to represent them. You yourself stated above that they don't? I got your argumentation as "I never was represented anyway, so not being represented as expat did change nothing". But the difference is that the other americans have representatives that are supposed to act in their interests. Expats have only the afterthought of being american and that one c…

No, my argument is that expats have representation, because they vote for members of Congress. As an aside, I remarked at how that representation doesn't do a whole lot for any American, living abroad or not.

The elected officials who represent a given expat are those from the district where the expat is registered to vote. For example, when I lived in France, I was still registered to vote in Wisconsin, so I voted for Wisconsin Congressmen, and they are who I would contact if I felt like wasting my time by making my opinion known to legislators.

The article is trying to say that because expats don't have any representatives exclusively for them that they do not have representation at all. I find this to be absurd. Yes, small interest groups have trouble getting action in the legislature, but that's hardly unique to expats, and nobody says that e.g. janitors pay taxes without representation just because there's no Janitor Congressman.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#104

Post by Randgalt »

Try opening a bank account as a foreign US resident. It took my over a month to get my bank account and required copious documentation and a lawyer. All the time there was no guarantee that I would actually get the account. I personally know several US expats who were unable to get bank accounts. It's so much work for the banks that many are just not accepting US citizens for new accounts.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#105

Post by [deleted] »

crdb wrote: post #72
matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question though – why should citizens living abroad (i.e. not using US public services) pay for those services through taxation?

The key is to look at the current budget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_States_federal_bud... It can be split into three families of spending: - defense, which benefits you globally via Pax Americana, free trade routes etc. and should you require it, "Captain Phillips" style rescue. - "socialism", in the form of benefits that everybody has to pay for and that you can receive if you trigger certain situati…

[deleted]

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#106

Post by nico_h »

crdb wrote: post #72
matthewmacleod wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question though – why should citizens living abroad (i.e. not using US public services) pay for those services through taxation?

The key is to look at the current budget: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_United_States_federal_bud... It can be split into three families of spending: - defense, which benefits you globally via Pax Americana, free trade routes etc. and should you require it, "Captain Phillips" style rescue. - "socialism", in the form of benefits that everybody has to pay for and that you can receive if you trigger certain situati…

>foreign citizen somewhat benefit from Pax Americana but there is no guarantee it will continue, whilst US citizen are covered globally with much more certainty

Tell that to the lybian, syrian, iraki, Salvadoran, etc... that have "benefited" from the "Pax" Americana

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#107

Post by mark_l_watson »

My wife and I had been planning on buying a home in either Belize or Costa Rica but gave up this plans because of FACTA. Too bad because I really like Central America and was looking forward to a major lifestyle change from integrating into a local rural community.

Really a messed up law and messed up policy.

I do understand why our government did it: not good for the economy to have older people spend their social security money in a relatively inexpensive foreign country. I think the money laundering and anti terrorism arguments may just be a smokescreen. This may also be just our government throwing their weight around, bullying other countries.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#108

Post by nraynaud »

briandear wrote: post #89
rayiner wrote: post #40

Is taxing expats abroad really a problem? First, there is a large baseline exemption and most expats abroad don't pay U.S. taxes. Second, if you're intending to permanently leave the U.S. why should you keep U.S. Citizenship? And if you're intending to come back, is it really unfair to tax you? American citizenship has real benefits, especially if you're rich enough to pay expat taxes. The U.S. protects you and your…

You have no idea what you're talking about. It isn't just about taxation it's about countries being forced to report to the IRS. If you have a foreign account with a balance over $10k and you fail to report the account (in a filing separate from your tax returns,) you are fined $10k -- no exceptions. If the balance just goes above $10k for even one minute, you are on the hook for reporting that account for as long as…

plus you might get a call by the local CIA station asking you for a favor you would prefer to avoid.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#109

Post by seanmcdirmid »

deong wrote: post #79
rurban wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a big one. Many expats had to resign their US citizenship to avoid this silly law. Double taxation only exists in Aethopia and the US. Read this blog: http://www.overseas-exile.com/ Protection? Yes, maybe that's the reason. To support the US military efforts and budget. On a side-note: If I would applied to the US greencard, and then decided to move back to Germany, I would have to pay double income taxes. To G…

To be clear, you wouldn't actually pay double-taxes (I think -- if you make more than $100k, it depends on if the Germans and Americans have a treaty over it, but most countries do, I think). You'd have to file twice, but the US side would consist of forms that say you don't owe the US government anything because you already paid more to the Germans than the US would have charged.

There are cases where double taxation can occur that aren't covered under tax treaties. Consider an American working abroad going on a business trip to the USA. Depends in the country, you can be on the hook for taxes in both countries, where neither country recognizes the right of the other to tax.

Re: The Law That Makes U.S. Expats Toxic

#110

Post by mtanski »

negrit wrote: post #93
cwmma wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

well you can do that because you have national elections, none of those in America as even the presidential election is technically 51 simultaneous statewide elections (well 50 + D.C.)

I must be missing something. I don't understand why not having nation wide election prevent the U.S. from having congressmen to represent those living abroad.

Since we only have two parties, each one doesn't want to do anything in the odd case it would give the other one an edge they don't know about. So things stay shitty.
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