The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4) • Hacker News Board

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#101

Post by mattront » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:05 PM UTC

stevoski wrote: post #19

Please, please, anyone, if you are getting started in online payment processing, don't do it yourself. Use a service that already handles the VAT and fraud detection issues. Then, when you've proven your product, and got substantial sales, you can write your own. Maybe. The author of the article spent weeks and thousands of euros to implement a payment system. And yet he had only a handful of customers.

We use http://paddle.com (they're based in UK) for payment processing. They take care of VAT and fraud prevention. There's no need to implement these services yourself.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#102

Post by jtheory » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:07 PM UTC

Symbiote wrote: post #59

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "Verified by Visa" is exactly like phishing. Good paper. Fortunately here in the USA I haven't been asked for my credentials in at least 10 years. So it seems to have died the death it so richly deserved. Do people encounter this on a daily basis?

It's ages since I've seen it used in the UK, although not 10 years. More like three or four. (The redirect sometimes happens, but it's automatically approved.)

I'm in France -- I still see it for almost 100% of the purchases I make online if the merchant is here in France, and a decent number of them when the merchant is in the UK. The last purchase I made with my bank card that got the interstitial page was about half an hour ago.

It sends a text to my mobile for me to plug into the form to approve the txn -- thus, not like phishing in this case. But for a while this was a real nightmare because my mobile number changed, and I couldn't figure out how to convince my bank to store the new number (it turned out after many months and phone calls I was sending the requisite paper form to the wrong address for my type of account...).

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#103

Post by kelnos » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #73

teddyh wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies Find Reward Often No Motivator http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/motivation.html

That was a good read, but there was a different mechanism at work for me. When I do something for free, and someone complains about it or finds it wanting, it does not bother me. Sort of like "Double your money back on Free Advice you don't like." But when I am being paid to provide the thing I am providing, a big sense of my wanting to make sure they are getting their value kicks in, and since I undervalue my time t…

I guess I've just become a bit more jaded. Or maybe I always have been. I used to maintain a good amount of open source stuff, and the entitled complaints really got to me.

But if I'm being paid for something, I feel the obligation to deliver what I've promised, and I feel bad if I fall short. I do struggle sometimes with valuing my time "correctly", but overall I think I've experienced less stress building software for a paycheck vs. dealing with the (minority of) ungrateful leeches in the open source community.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#104

Post by crazypyro » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:16 PM UTC

umziehennachbar wrote: post #42

If $6 is too cheap and encourages fraudsters to test credit cards on your service because banks don't get concerned about transactions at that cost, how much should he have charged at a minimum? $10 $20?

A good way to counter testers is to add a delay to charging the card.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#105

Post by boyter » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:17 PM UTC

I can totally understand. I just read through each post and I can relate to pretty much every point.

For searchcode I have not implemented paid accounts though I have considered it for a while. This post pretty much confirms for me that it would be a bad idea. searchcode also gets a lot of abuse, particularly to the API's (millions of requests) and though hot-links. I think the worst part for me though is the constant takedown notices. Most are nicely worded emails, but quite a few have been very nasty threatening legal demands.

I haven't lost my love for my side project yet and the ad's that are running at least cover hosting costs. Really looking forward to the next part in the tale.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#106

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:19 PM UTC

bluecalm wrote: post #39

stevoski wrote: post #19

Please, please, anyone, if you are getting started in online payment processing, don't do it yourself. Use a service that already handles the VAT and fraud detection issues. Then, when you've proven your product, and got substantial sales, you can write your own. Maybe. The author of the article spent weeks and thousands of euros to implement a payment system. And yet he had only a handful of customers.

Not much choice here (Poland). You can use payment gateway (say PayPal) but no luck with VAT and ridiculous VATMOSS regulations like being required to keep 2 pieces of evidence of customer location (say address and IP) which for example PayPal doesn't give you access to (you only go the address).

[deleted]

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#107

Post by crazypyro » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:19 PM UTC

Paul-ish wrote: post #77

Namrog84 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah and if heavy users want to constantly deal with changing email addresses and moving accounts just to get out of it. Like you said is few. Let them be? It's likely they generate word of mouth and other value being invested enough to go thru the hassle.

>Like you said is few. Let them be? It's likely they generate word of mouth and other value being invested enough to go thru the hassle. This sounds a lot like the arguments piracy apologists use. A lot like the arguments people looking for free web design use. I am very skeptical whenever anyone asks for anything to them for free now because it will somehow (nebulously) come back to me later in a good way.

I think he's just thinking about it practically. Its potentially not worth your time and effort as a business owner to go after that tiny minority who abuse the free trials.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#108

Post by Liru » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:22 PM UTC

PhantomGremlin wrote: post #57

TheSmoke wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

risk score means the possibility of a transaction being fraudulent. here's another way you can do this for cards issued in Europe: if the risk score is too high start a 3D secure transaction. if the risk score is acceptable then start a normal transaction. a full 3D transaction will never mean it is not fraud however you will have no liabilities when a chargeback is issued by the card holder. many of your US customer…

many of your US customers, if not all, will fail to pay via 3D-secure because god knows why As I mentioned in another reply, "Verified by Visa" is a stupid joke. Which, fortunately, I don't think I've seen anymore in at least 10 years. The paper linked in the other reply to you provides more details of how stupid this thing is. IIRC basically the first time you encounter it you get a popup asking you to create an acc…

I've been bugged by the "Verified by Visa" thing in the last month when trying to add Skype credit for my parents. Completely stupid implementation that didn't even work; I clicked "cancel" and my Skype transaction still went through.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#109

Post by imchillyb » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:29 PM UTC

Following the bliss isn't supposed to pay the bills.

Following the bliss increases skill-sets, creates necessary connections between persons, and gives the bliss-seeker an out. Out is good.

The bliss is not the means to an end. The bliss is self serving and self improving, while also finding an escape from the daily grind and its deleterious effects.

Follow your bliss, by all means. But, at the same time, realize that it's not the end goal. You're not learning programming to make money. You're learning programming because you enjoy it, and or it increases your skill-sets.

Also, programming isn't bliss. Programming is an addiction. It's a sometime beneficial addiction, but an addiction nonetheless. Something to consider.

Re: The toxic side of free – how I lost the love for my side project (part 4)

#110

Post by inDigiNeous » Thu, Sep 17, 2015, 10:35 PM UTC

imchillyb wrote: post #109

Following the bliss isn't supposed to pay the bills. Following the bliss increases skill-sets, creates necessary connections between persons, and gives the bliss-seeker an out. Out is good. The bliss is not the means to an end. The bliss is self serving and self improving, while also finding an escape from the daily grind and its deleterious effects. Follow your bliss, by all means. But, at the same time, realize tha…

If you're dedicated enough to follow the bliss, it will pay your bills, and also do the other things. If you have failed personally, please don't discourage others.

Programming can be bliss, at least seeing the results. I mean, why else would anybody program? Just for the money?