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How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

theatlantic.com

101–110 of 133 posts

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#101
"Fight for your Write” campaign—brought up an fMRI study suggesting that writing by hand may be better for kids’ learning than using a computer."

How about writing by hand ON a computer?

For me is totally stupid to teach kids to type on a keyboard, when in the present and near future you could use other faster and better means for writing, like this speech recognition I am using now or stenotype.

The other day I saw a friend using a new prototype of a new digital stenotype on a maker space and I was sold instantly. This is the future.

But children need to learn how to draw, and train their hands in precise manipulation. If you lose handwriting training when you are kid you also lose the ability of doing precise work with your hands as your brain will prune the neural connections with your hand as you don't use it.

You can do that on a computer. Today we have affordable galaxy notes. I use an expensive Cinqiq, that will become much more affordable in the future. Training kids looking at the rear mirror makes no sense to me.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#103
post #93

In France everyone uses ballpoints, and yet everyone writes cursive, so I very much doubt there's any connection between the two. The weird handwriting of Americans certainly has to do with how they're taught, not what they use. I have three kids that are currently learning to write (aged 6, 7 and 10) and a great deal of time is spent forming nice, cursive letters (copying lines of frequent letter pairs to lean how t…

I wouldn't say that everyone uses ballpoints, I used fountain pens during most of my education in France and so did most of my classmates. Many (most?) teachers still require their students to use fountain pens (one of the reasons is probably the fact that you can use an eraser, so it makes for cleaner papers...). Even after getting out of school, I don't use ballpoints if I can avoid them, because they're not as fas…

As I said in another comment, if you use a fountain pen in a business setting (as I do), people look at you funny.

I was around 10 when erasers first appeared, and they were strictly forbidden during all my school years, because they tended to make a big mess (or a hole) in the paper. We were told to strike errors properly, with a ruler.

Today it's true that they are permitted, to my amazement.

Among my children's teachers, some recommend fountain pens, some say they dislike it, but mostly kids can use what they like best.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#104
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, why would they torture children that way? Even ballpoint pen is obviously outdated and should be held back, keyboard is the king.

Cost.

Cost? Fontain pens are very impractical devices. Ink wells, ink spills, carrying pens around, fixing them - this ends up.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#105
I call bullshit, in Russia people still write in cursive long after introduction of ballpoint pen, because that's what people are taught in school. It also happens to be much faster than print, regardless of the writing implement, so that helps too.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#106
post #105

I call bullshit, in Russia people still write in cursive long after introduction of ballpoint pen, because that's what people are taught in school. It also happens to be much faster than print, regardless of the writing implement, so that helps too.

Same in the UK.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#107
post #3

It is most telling, to me, to hear people (none of them made from straw) admit that writer's cramp is part and parcel of a single session of taking notes or writing an hour-long exam. Professional copyists and secretaries in the early 20th century weren't biting down on their lower lips to push through the pain every time they put pen to paper during ten- and twelve-hour workdays. They just used better tools for that…

I take your point, but it has to be said that the copyists and e.g. book keepers in 19th and 20th century wrote more slowly and methodically than students scribbling in a lecture. As the author Rosemary Sassoon quoted in OA put it...

"most of us need a flexible way of writing—fast, almost a scribble for ourselves to read, and progressively slower and more legible for other purposes."

I have a suspicion that we mainly use pens/paper for the writing fast bits and the purposes for which slower writing was needed are now achieved using our keyboards.

My personal test for a pen of any kind is to hold it lightly between thumb and index finger, and then drag the pen down a page so that the only force pressing the nib/ball/tip onto the paper is the pen's own weight. If it leaves a line then I can use it without hand pain for fairly long periods. If it does not, then I'll use it mainly for shopping lists and post-it notes. Most but not all fountain pens pass that test as do some of the gel pens that produce wider lines such as the Uniball signos. Felt pens e.g. Sharpie fine points can pass the test as well!

As mentioned in a sibling comment to this, italic writing was taught in most UK schools for most of the 1960s onwards.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#108
post #56
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to prefer roller ball pens but I'm pretty much a lost cause when it comes to writing at this point anyway. Handwriting was never one of my better subjects in grade school under the best of circumstances but looking through old notebooks as they progress over the years apparently reveals a general descent into total loss of right hand muscular control. :-)

I bought a copy of Write Now! and it improved my handwriting considerably. After going through it (it's essentially a workbook) I was kind of pissed at the absurdity that was the cursive that I learned in grade school.

Which "Write Now!"? There appears to be several by different authors on Amazon.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#109
post #3

It is most telling, to me, to hear people (none of them made from straw) admit that writer's cramp is part and parcel of a single session of taking notes or writing an hour-long exam. Professional copyists and secretaries in the early 20th century weren't biting down on their lower lips to push through the pain every time they put pen to paper during ten- and twelve-hour workdays. They just used better tools for that…

Since Bic Cristal pens are my writing tool of choice, I have to say I find it strange you only mention Bic. Maybe a Bic pen isn't the right tool for how you write, but you can definitely use it without getting cramps.

Quote from Rosemary Sassoon's book in the OA...

"We must find ways of holding modern pens that will enable us to write without pain. …We also need to encourage efficient letters suited to modern pens."

Can you describe the way you hold your pen when writing and perhaps comment on the way you form your letters? I'm interested as I find the ubiquitous Bic impossible for more than a couple of sides.

Re: How the Ballpoint Pen Killed Cursive

#110

Discussions about cursive writing on the Internet confused me quite a bit until I noticed that there seems to be a pretty large difference between what I learned in Germany and what people in the US learned. What children learn in Germany for at least a few decades now looks like the following: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Vereinfachte_Ausgangssch... From what I understand, the cursive script that was taught i…

Interesting, I guess there are some regional differences then, as well. This is what I learned in elementary school in the 90s (in NRW): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Deutsche_normalschrift_a...

For what it's worth I still try to use it whenever I write by hand (which is rare in the first place), but often revert to print because I can't usually decipher my cursive a day later.

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