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California's Broken Jaywalking Law

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Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#11

Post by knorby »

thatswrong0 wrote: post #6
hayd wrote: post #3

$190-250, sheesh - that fine amount is far to high. The maximum parking fine in LA, for parking on a red curb, only costs you $93.

I recently got a $197 ticket for crossing a marked crosswalk in an uncontrolled intersection on foot.. In front of a cop car. There was no danger, but he accelerated at me in the intersection causing a "hazard". Nailed me for CVc 21950(b). It's a racket - they're scumbags. If I didn't work in tech, that could be a very difficult amount to deal with.

Wish you fought that, since the cop broke CVc 21950(c).

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#13

Post by MichaelGG »

vacri wrote: post #5

Otherwise, what’s the point of having a countdown signal? It tells people currently on the crossing how long they have. If they're infirm, they may be better off waiting at a traffic island than trying to rush across. The red hand is pretty clear - it means "don't start crossing", not "start crossing if you're confident you can make it in time" (though that is the way the countdown is used). $200 is a ridiculous fine…

Yet the countdowns are also at intersections that have no middle place. In such cases, it's a binary decision, made for people of all ability ranges. The countdown provides no useful information to act upon and should thus be removed.

Though I agree - there should be some way to indicate "do not attempt crossing, even if you think you're so fast." Perhaps adjust the countdown and keep the hand for several seconds more than it is currently.

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#14

Post by cozzyd »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #8
vacri wrote: post #5

Otherwise, what’s the point of having a countdown signal? It tells people currently on the crossing how long they have. If they're infirm, they may be better off waiting at a traffic island than trying to rush across. The red hand is pretty clear - it means "don't start crossing", not "start crossing if you're confident you can make it in time" (though that is the way the countdown is used). $200 is a ridiculous fine…

Agreed; this isn't at all ambiguous. If you were allowed to cross, it would be a walk signal with countdown.

No other place treats it that way (and most police departments have better things to do than to target pedestrians).

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#15

Post by menssen »

Anecdotally (I'm posting this to see if I'm the only one who's noticed), there's something culturally (or legally) unique about jaywalking in California.

The ambiguity of countdown timers should have been a problem in every city/state that put them in. But I can't imagine reading this article about anywhere else because everywhere else, everybody jaywalks all the time and the laws are rarely enforced.

But relatively nobody jaywalks in CA. A few years ago I was in downtown LA very early in the morning, standing on a street corner with five or so other people who were all patiently waiting for a green light to cross a completely empty street. No cars in sight. For someone from east of the Rockies, it's actually kind of surreal.

Why is jaywalking such a big deal in CA?

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#16

Post by rtpg »

escherize wrote: post #2

This is a bit like keeping speed limits down at 65 mph (a standard set when car technology was 50 years less mature). It's another way that the state can selectively punish most any citizen at will, within the bounds of law.

car technology was 50 years less mature, but are our brains any better? There's a lot of studies showing the strong correlation between speed limits and car accident fatalities, even recently

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#18

Post by cozzyd »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #7
deadfall wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree. The flow of traffic for most commuters, like myself, seem to around 75 mph. "The speed limit is commonly set at or below the 85th percentile operating speed (being the speed which no more than 15% of traffic is exceeding)[41][42][43] and in the US is typically set 8 to 12 mph (13 to 19 km/h) below that speed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limit

On the other hand, if the speed limit was set at 75mph, would that remain the common speed of traffic, or would the common speed increase with the limit?

On the Autobahn people drive at infinity km/h

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#19

Post by danhak »

JoshTriplett wrote: post #8
vacri wrote: post #5

Otherwise, what’s the point of having a countdown signal? It tells people currently on the crossing how long they have. If they're infirm, they may be better off waiting at a traffic island than trying to rush across. The red hand is pretty clear - it means "don't start crossing", not "start crossing if you're confident you can make it in time" (though that is the way the countdown is used). $200 is a ridiculous fine…

Agreed; this isn't at all ambiguous. If you were allowed to cross, it would be a walk signal with countdown.

Not if you take the walk signal to mean "it's safe to cross right now," which is not the case if you're on the curb and there's one second left.

You also clearly haven't spent much time in L.A...many of these signs flash the walk signal for literally 2 or 3 seconds before beginning the 20 second red countdown.

Re: California's Broken Jaywalking Law

#20

Post by dmitrygr »

Refuse to talk to cops (always, not just about jaywalking).

Do not provide ID ever (unless driving, since it also happens to be your DL) and do not answer questions as to whether you have ID.

The amount of paperwork they'll need to fill out in order to arrest you (and thus allow them to search you [the claim will be that the search is for weapons for their safety, but anything they find is free for them to use/look at, incl your ID, if you even have it]) makes it not worth it for them. They'll just find a stupider victim.

Disclaimer: IANAL, but i do often end up in court with cops over a lot of things, this included, and have not yet paid any fines

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