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What Snowden really revealed

aljazeera.com

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Re: What Snowden really revealed

#11

Post by Sharlin »

canadev wrote: post #6

I think this was well written and I enjoyed reading it. It brought some interesting information to my attention that I was not aware of (e.g. the porn habit blackmail scheme) - there have been so many articles about the leaks that despite them being important to me, I've made a conscious decision not to read them all. I really like the quote (that I can't find a source on) that he "defected from the American governme…

Using your powers to acquire sensitive information in order to blackmail political opponents is certainly nothing new - just ask J. Edgar Hoover.

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#12

Post by salient »

Ygg2 wrote: post #4

I wonder, at what point would NSA start manufacturing threats. It seems like clear progression of their behavior. Because you can't constantly cry wolf, you have to fight a straw-wolf from time to time.

They have FBI doing that for them, and ATF [1], and who knows who else. I think many of these agencies are starting to ask for funding specifically for these sort of "operations", where they not only try and convince people to commit crimes, but give them all the funding and resources they need to commit them, too.

We've gotten to the point where the government has to manufacture or invent crimes in order to arrest people. Even the War on Drugs isn't enough for them anymore. They need more. I'm actually really curious what will happen when the War on Drugs will end. Because that would leave a huge hole in their plan to criminalize just about everyone.

Will they start sending SWAT teams to people's homes for pirating movies? Will they start arrest people on the street for pissing them off somehow? I don't know, but I'm really curious what would happen. I certainly don't expect them to just lay back and ease up on the arrests, if the War on Drug is over.

[1] http://www.jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/atf-uses-ro...

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#13

Post by gaius »

pgeorgi wrote: post #9
Derbasti wrote: post #7

At this point, it may well be impossible to shut down the NSA. I imagine every opposing politician gets visited by some agent at some point, showing him records of his own wrongdoings. Imagine every politician ever be forced to choose between the end of his career and opposing the NSA. How can we get out of this mess?

Order some armed body to take over all NSA sites and burn things to the ground. Reason being in the set of (libel|slander|extortion|treason).

That is precisely what the Founding Fathers intended to happen in this situation. Calling the militia!

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#14

Post by cims »

Derbasti wrote: post #8
boldklubben wrote: post #3

> We have sacrificed our freedoms and morals in order to make war on those abroad There are unperceivable powers that be. Possibly and even likely without what we consider morals. Bear with me. When you had enough wealth and can own or have anything, what's next? It's human nature.

The thing is, I don't think we have sacrificed anything. No one ever gave the NSA explicit authority to do the things it does. It's just that they did do them snyway.

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing"

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#15

Post by jeroen »

canadev wrote: post #6

I think this was well written and I enjoyed reading it. It brought some interesting information to my attention that I was not aware of (e.g. the porn habit blackmail scheme) - there have been so many articles about the leaks that despite them being important to me, I've made a conscious decision not to read them all. I really like the quote (that I can't find a source on) that he "defected from the American governme…

"If I defected at all, I defected from the government to the public."

- http://boingboing.net/2013/12/24/edward-snowden-declares-vic...

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#17

Post by gaius »

Ygg2 wrote: post #4

I wonder, at what point would NSA start manufacturing threats. It seems like clear progression of their behavior. Because you can't constantly cry wolf, you have to fight a straw-wolf from time to time.

Drone strikes on civilians manufactures a raison d'etre for the whole military-industrial complex.

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#18

Post by Create »

We begin therefore where they are determined not to end, with the question whether any form of democratic self-government, anywhere, is consistent with the kind of massive, pervasive, surveillance into which the Unites States government has led not only us but the world.

This should not actually be a complicated inquiry.

http://snowdenandthefuture.info/events.html

http://benjamin.sonntag.fr/Moglen-at-Re-Publica-Freedom-of-t...

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#19

Post by [deleted] »

Derbasti wrote: post #7

At this point, it may well be impossible to shut down the NSA. I imagine every opposing politician gets visited by some agent at some point, showing him records of his own wrongdoings. Imagine every politician ever be forced to choose between the end of his career and opposing the NSA. How can we get out of this mess?

[deleted]

Re: What Snowden really revealed

#20

Post by erichocean »

Sharlin wrote: post #11
canadev wrote: post #6

I think this was well written and I enjoyed reading it. It brought some interesting information to my attention that I was not aware of (e.g. the porn habit blackmail scheme) - there have been so many articles about the leaks that despite them being important to me, I've made a conscious decision not to read them all. I really like the quote (that I can't find a source on) that he "defected from the American governme…

Using your powers to acquire sensitive information in order to blackmail political opponents is certainly nothing new - just ask J. Edgar Hoover.

Is there something special about "newness" when determining what our response should be to a particular "bad thing" (generically: evil)?

It almost seems like posts like yours–something tptacek is perhaps the master of–are saying, perhaps subtly or even inadvertently, "this evil is not new, and therefore you should not oppose it".

My take is this: just because some humans who were born before me were unable to recognize, or if they were, oppose, a particular bad thing makes no difference whatsoever. There is no statute of limitations on opposing evil and doing good. Wrongs can—and should—be corrected no matter how much time has passed since the discovery and the subsequent correction.

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