that seems to be a great idea, google could also do Germans a favor by hosting "this video is not available in your country" mirrors, right?
Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
11–20 of 75 posts
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sincerely, you're wrong. GreatFire.org exists to end China's censorship - they have pondered long, researched, and have not missed your point. China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. Read: Collateral Freedom https://openitp.org/pdfs/CollateralFreedom.pdf China blocking all Google products would make such a backlash in China that it's not a feasible move for the China government. J…
To be fair, a number of those are regularly and/or completely blocked in China, e.g. Google Drive[1] and encrypted.google.com[2] completely (if I'm reading those right) and gmail[3] often enough to be notable. [1] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/drive.google.com [2] https://zh.greatfire.org/encrypted.google.com [3] https://zh.greatfire.org/https/mail.google.com
The translation of your link for Gmail says Gmail is (only) 9% blocked in China.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#13How is the author overlooking the most obvious course of action the Chinese government could take? China could easily block Google outright -- while the Github reversal the author mentions is certainly surprising, Google represents only a small sliver of Chinese search engine use [1] and probably wouldn't result in much of a mass outcry. [1] http://thenextweb.com/asia/2013/09/17/baidu-still-tops-china...
Sincerely, you're wrong. GreatFire.org exists to end China's censorship - they have pondered long, researched, and have not missed your point. China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. Read: Collateral Freedom https://openitp.org/pdfs/CollateralFreedom.pdf China blocking all Google products would make such a backlash in China that it's not a feasible move for the China government. J…
You've never been to China, have you?
Access to gmail is spotty and unreliable, like most other google services. Android phones connect to Chinese android market and most have alternative chinese only app markets. If google where to stop access to android market, people would get pissed, but switch app-provider.
For the rest, these are barely used services. I don't even think hangouts are accessible, since it's a part of Google+, which is blocked. Maps? Year, it's nice, but so is Baidu maps. Picasa? Which economy is impacted by picasa?
> China's weakness is they cannot censor where it crimps the economy too much. It's brilliant.
While this is true, google is not one of them.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#14> The code-sharing site Github uses encrypted-only access and, perhaps not intentionally, broke the pattern of Internet control in China.
Encrypted-only access is not a solution, it's a patch. Here is how China could break it if they wanted to:
1. Choose domains that you want to monitor in this way. E.g. github.com.
2. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 443 will return a certificate that the Chinese government issued using CNNIC. This is trusted by at least Mozilla: http://snag.gy/E1ftE.jpg (note to self: delete that ca)
3. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 80 will be converted to ssl. So the browser is connected over http to the ISP, and the ISP's servers will connect over https/ssl to Github.
In all instances, monitoring is possible. Forcing ssl is no solution. It does make monitoring harder though, and I suppose that is a good thing already, but all the Chinese government needs to do is throw money at it and the ISPs will be able to handle this.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#15> The code-sharing site Github uses encrypted-only access and, perhaps not intentionally, broke the pattern of Internet control in China. Encrypted-only access is not a solution, it's a patch. Here is how China could break it if they wanted to: 1. Choose domains that you want to monitor in this way. E.g. github.com. 2. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 443 will return a certificate that the Chinese governmen…
Surely, this is an (admittedly broad and difficult) issue with CAs and the trust element of SSL authentication. By the theory of SSL, an 'attacker' is not supposed to have control over a 'trusted' CA, so SSL is 'supposed to' protect against this.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article specifically mentions China blocking Google. “Google! Do it! If they don't block you, freedom wins. If they do block you, there will be much more opposition to censorship inside China and the system will be forced to change, thus freedom wins too!”
The article describes how the their (small?) group of activists is willing to "bet the house", and that the potential outcome could include Google being blocked. It's nice that they're willing to see Google blocked, but they're not actually giving up anything if that happens. Google on the other hand is a public company and has a lot more to lose if they're blocked. What would the shareholders say to Google risking t…
Sincerely, that's not correct.
GreatFire.org is at the cutting-edge of research (including from Harvard, Princeton, and many software engineers globally and in China) to end the censorship in China. GreatFire.org is on the front lines of solving censorship.
This idea is new research that works.
Google has a preponderant position in search in 125 nations, and is not hurting that much from retreating to HongKong. Baidu can't even get a foothold going in Japan.
On the other hand, the blunt mercantilism which keeps Google, Twitter, YouTube, Facebook out of China stands to weaken by applying this excellent idea.
Google actually may benefit by responding adroitly to the intentional evisceration of Google by the Chinese government.
The beauty of this research is that it probes a blind spot in China policy not easily remedied, while hitting the one place China cares about - money and the national economy.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#17> The code-sharing site Github uses encrypted-only access and, perhaps not intentionally, broke the pattern of Internet control in China. Encrypted-only access is not a solution, it's a patch. Here is how China could break it if they wanted to: 1. Choose domains that you want to monitor in this way. E.g. github.com. 2. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 443 will return a certificate that the Chinese governmen…
I think the author wasn't suggesting to end surveillance, too, just censorship. Unless you're saying that the Chinese government could just do MITM attacks and serve the readers different stuff.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#18> The code-sharing site Github uses encrypted-only access and, perhaps not intentionally, broke the pattern of Internet control in China. Encrypted-only access is not a solution, it's a patch. Here is how China could break it if they wanted to: 1. Choose domains that you want to monitor in this way. E.g. github.com. 2. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 443 will return a certificate that the Chinese governmen…
Surely, this is an (admittedly broad and difficult) issue with CAs and the trust element of SSL authentication. By the theory of SSL, an 'attacker' is not supposed to have control over a 'trusted' CA, so SSL is 'supposed to' protect against this.
I only thought of the Chinese govt issuing a certificate after writing half the post. Initially I was just going to comment on the easy possibility of MITM attacks. These would fail whenever anyone forced https into their address bar, but I think less than 5% of the people do that. That would mean just refusing connections for the <5% and still sniffing everyone else.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#19> The code-sharing site Github uses encrypted-only access and, perhaps not intentionally, broke the pattern of Internet control in China. Encrypted-only access is not a solution, it's a patch. Here is how China could break it if they wanted to: 1. Choose domains that you want to monitor in this way. E.g. github.com. 2. Requests to any IP for that domain on port 443 will return a certificate that the Chinese governmen…
I think the author wasn't suggesting to end surveillance, too, just censorship. Unless you're saying that the Chinese government could just do MITM attacks and serve the readers different stuff.
I see no reason why they couldn't, but good point. I had indeed replaced 'censorship' with 'surveillance' in my mind.
Re: Google Can Bring an End to Censorship in 10 Days
#20Google doing this would be great, and I do support it. However, the effect would be so much greater if all US companies allied against stuff like this, and form some kind of BSA against censorship and surveillance by governments around the world.
The last time Google did this with the Chinese government, I remember Microsoft was ecstatic at potentially replacing Google in China with Bing, by following the same requests Google wouldn't, from the government, just so they can win even an extra 1 percent market share (which they never did, anyway - Baidu filled the gap).
As long as US companies keep screwing each other over for that extra 1 percent they can gain over their competitors in China, if they do follow China's orders, while the competitors do not, this is going to be a very hard thing to "win". So shame on those who do that.