So You Want to Be a Programmer? • Hacker News Board

Re: So You Want to Be a Programmer?

#11

Post by worthlessgenius » Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 4:44 PM UTC

jonsen wrote: post #10

worthlessgenius wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many layers involved which lead up to this point. The teachers, parents, peers and selves all play a large part in how a person learns. A good combination of the involvement of each is needed to produce an upstanding member of society.

Yes. I fully agree. I didn't mean to imply that you could pinpoint some one responsible. But it is sad, that you are lured into college on false premises. If one is not generally prepared to study can we expect one to "Take a day or two and research what is involved in learning to program." ?

That's a very good point, one that I hadn't considered. Although I don't think that being able to study and doing a little research are mutually exclusive.

But, as you say, most likely a person who doesn't have the ability/desire to study and learn about a certain subject probably wouldn't take the time to consider the time and effort involved.

Re: So You Want to Be a Programmer?

#12

Post by worthlessgenius » Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 4:50 PM UTC

marksutherland wrote: post #9

This is very similar to the rants I've given and heard from plenty fellow students back when I was still studying a few years ago. I can see exactly where it's coming from, and yet I can't agree. Partly it's the blatant snobbery of it, which I know from my own experience. It's frustrating to see folk with no interest in the discipline do better because they're more focussed on getting a first than actually learning a…

Ha, the boob point is well taken.

I'm certainly not/not going to be the world's most stellar programmer, but I have to look at the other people in my class who are obviously holding up the rest of the students through their complete misunderstanding of the material.

Sure there is potential in everyone, and most likely a career path for any number of variables involved in producing a quality software product. But when a person is taking their second class in a programming language, and you ask them to show you their switch statement, and all you get is blank stares, is it your place to think that they need to find something else?

Obviously this is all from my personal experience, and I don't profess to know all the answers. But, as a general question, how do you handle a fellow student who is obviously not getting the coursework, and if they achieve the same degree will lessen the effectiveness of said degree from the same institution?

Re: So You Want to Be a Programmer?

#13

Post by prospero » Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 4:54 PM UTC

marksutherland wrote: post #9

This is very similar to the rants I've given and heard from plenty fellow students back when I was still studying a few years ago. I can see exactly where it's coming from, and yet I can't agree. Partly it's the blatant snobbery of it, which I know from my own experience. It's frustrating to see folk with no interest in the discipline do better because they're more focussed on getting a first than actually learning a…

A friend of mine has degrees in english and computer science, and works as a technical writer. While his job does sit at the intersection of those two fields, what he learned in college is laughably underutilized on a day-to-day basis.

If someone just wants to work adjunct to software development, why should they take the same courses as people who want to be software developers? A class that presents programming as a medium of communication rather than an exercise in minutiae seems like it would get a lot more traction with people who don't see the glamor in spending their nights and weekends in front of a computer screen.

Re: So You Want to Be a Programmer?

#14

Post by marksutherland » Fri, Apr 24, 2009, 5:34 PM UTC

worthlessgenius wrote: post #12

marksutherland wrote: post #9

This is very similar to the rants I've given and heard from plenty fellow students back when I was still studying a few years ago. I can see exactly where it's coming from, and yet I can't agree. Partly it's the blatant snobbery of it, which I know from my own experience. It's frustrating to see folk with no interest in the discipline do better because they're more focussed on getting a first than actually learning a…

Ha, the boob point is well taken. I'm certainly not/not going to be the world's most stellar programmer, but I have to look at the other people in my class who are obviously holding up the rest of the students through their complete misunderstanding of the material. Sure there is potential in everyone, and most likely a career path for any number of variables involved in producing a quality software product. But when…

To a certain extent, it doesn't matter that much. This is a problem that affects most universities and most courses. Ultimately I became resigned to focusing on what I wanted from my course, which was to learn some knowledge and skills I found interesting. Also a degree seems to act as a sign that you're capable of getting a degree, and putting up with the bullshit that entails these days. It doesn't say anything about how good a developer you are or will become, or what kind of "Computer Scientist" you are. That's part of the reason why companies have interview processes, because you can only glean so much from a CV.

So, my advice is to give the guy a hand if you have time, you'll probably find he has skills that compliment your own which could come in useful someday. Also, try to stop caring so much about how your peers are performing, and focus on exploiting the access to people and resources available to you so you can get what you want out of the course. Ultimately there's very little you can do to change the behaviour of people your only mildly acquianted with.