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Pareto Front

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11–20 of 116 posts

Re: Pareto Front

#11
You can see the Pareto Frontier well in DeepSWE's chart here - https://deepswe.datacurve.ai/

ChatGPT 5.6 Luna on the right (cheaper) cover most of the frontier, with a point for Deepseek flash, and higher performance overlapping heavily between 5.6 Sol and Fable.

That DeepSeek point will probably move back towards Luna as deepseek announced a "significant" price increase coming to their API [1], which kind of demonstrates that beating the Pareto frontier is where the difficulty actually is).

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2026-08-06/deepseek-...

Re: Pareto Front

#12
post #4

may, anyone explain what is this

When you have a tradeoff between two parameters, which points dominate the others in the sense that you can't choose another point without getting less of one of the parameters.

thanks, may you tell me where we can use them?

Re: Pareto Front

#13
post #4

may, anyone explain what is this

Basically, prioritization. It’s really that simple. Eschew obfuscation.

Almost the complete opposite of prioritisation.

The Pareto points are where you sacrifice the least of anything to get the most of everything.

There's the saying about buying computers. Good, Cheap, Fast, pick any two. That's where you would prioritise.

If someone makes something that better, cheaper, and faster, or even pretty close to the best on two of those and clearly better on the other. It's a Pareto point.

Over time computers are getting better, cheaper and faster (software notwithstanding). The leading edge of that advance of all of the things is the Pareto front.

Re: Pareto Front

#14
post #3

Misread the title and got excited about a Pareto font, that is, the best possible font (presumably: distinct l/I, O/0, scores within error margins of the top readability and reading speed scores, widely available, etc.) Maybe in vein but did anyone already figure this one out? The closest I got was PT sans, open-licensed commissioned by the Russian ministry for communication (I found it surprising that a country that…

I'd also be interested in the Pareto Front of Fonts. That would be the final font collection - to rule them all.

Re: Pareto Front

#15
post #3

Misread the title and got excited about a Pareto font, that is, the best possible font (presumably: distinct l/I, O/0, scores within error margins of the top readability and reading speed scores, widely available, etc.) Maybe in vein but did anyone already figure this one out? The closest I got was PT sans, open-licensed commissioned by the Russian ministry for communication (I found it surprising that a country that…

lol same :D

Re: Pareto Front

#17
post #4

may, anyone explain what is this

If we have a set of things (e.g. language models) and some measures we care about (e.g. cost, speed, whether weights are open, scores for a few benchmarks, etc.), then some of those things will be "pareto optimal" (see below) and some won't. The "pareto front" is the subset that is pareto optimal.

Some thing is "pareto optimal" when there isn't another thing that's AT LEAST AS GOOD in ALL measures, and BETTER in at least one way. For example, if we say there are no ties (for simplicity), then the cheapest language model is pareto optimal; the fastest model is pareto optimal; those which score highest on each benchmark are pareto optimal; and so on.

Tradeoffs can also be pareto optimal: for example, if the cheapest model is also slow, then there will be more pareto optimal models which are "cheapest for their speed"; and so on for other tradeoffs (e.g. fastest that achieves a certain benchmark score; cheapest model with open weights; etc.).

If you're making a decision about which thing to choose, you only need to care about those in the pareto front (since, by definition, anything that's not pareto optimal is objectively worse on at least one measure).

Pareto optimality does not compare one measure against another: something that's 10000x slower can still be pareto optimal, if it's 1% cheaper than the alternatives. To pick a "best" thing, you could give a weight/importance to each measure, and combine them into an overall score: but that's subjective, and might vary between people and tasks. In contrast, focusing on the pareto front is a way to ignore those things that will never be the best, regardless of weighting.

Re: Pareto Front

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you have a tradeoff between two parameters, which points dominate the others in the sense that you can't choose another point without getting less of one of the parameters.

thanks, may you tell me where we can use them?

The current thing that comes up regularly is choosing an LLM setup.

Re: Pareto Front

#19
post #3

Misread the title and got excited about a Pareto font, that is, the best possible font (presumably: distinct l/I, O/0, scores within error margins of the top readability and reading speed scores, widely available, etc.) Maybe in vein but did anyone already figure this one out? The closest I got was PT sans, open-licensed commissioned by the Russian ministry for communication (I found it surprising that a country that…

Inter with optional open type features turned on?

https://rsms.me/inter/

Re: Pareto Front

#20
post #3

Misread the title and got excited about a Pareto font, that is, the best possible font (presumably: distinct l/I, O/0, scores within error margins of the top readability and reading speed scores, widely available, etc.) Maybe in vein but did anyone already figure this one out? The closest I got was PT sans, open-licensed commissioned by the Russian ministry for communication (I found it surprising that a country that…

I thought it was some sort of Italian activism group.

"The Pareto Front today claimed responsiblity for...."

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