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Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

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Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#11

Post by potatolicious »

rthomas6 wrote: post #6
potatolicious wrote: post #2

If true, this signals a huge shift in WinPhone strategy. Up until Microsoft's (ostensible) goal has been to secure a place for a proprietary, commercial OS that runs on OEM hardware (pretty much the Windows model on mobile). Microsoft jumping in with their own devices would probably signal the end of that, and the whole business will become much more Apple-like (vertically integrated, no OEMs). I can't imagine an OEM…

How is this different than Google making its own phones?

Android is free. Samsung, LG, et al aren't paying for the privilege of competing with the OS-builder. Microsoft also has much stricter rules re: customization for WinPhone, presumably as a response to the craptastic custom UIs LG, Motorola, and Samsung have been implementing for Android.

In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing against the platform owners themselves who are allowed to break whatever rules necessary to gain market share.

All on a platform that wasn't doing well to begin with - I can't imagine a sane OEM wanting to stick around. Maybe if WinPhone was selling like hotcakes you might expect OEMs to just bear it, but as it is MS in a poor place.

There is also another key difference to Nexus: the Nexus phones have never been heavily marketed, and even till now are the tools of developers and industry enthusiasts. I imagine if Google ever took the Nexus mass-market they'd see much more blowback from OEMs.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#12

Post by HarshaThota »

jdminhbg wrote: post #9
rthomas6 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than Google making its own phones?

You don't pay Google for Android.

If you want to call the phone an Android phone and include any of Google's apps or services, you do have to pay Google.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#13

Post by objclxt »

jdminhbg wrote: post #9
rthomas6 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than Google making its own phones?

You don't pay Google for Android.

...you pay Microsoft though! Microsoft has per-device fees for Android arranged with most major manufacturers (including Samsung), in exchange for which they don't sue for patent infringement.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/motorola_samsung_pat...

It has been suggested by some people (somewhat tongue in cheek) that in some cases the license fee for Windows Phone is less than the patent licenses for Android.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#14

Post by cooldeal »

potatolicious wrote: post #11
rthomas6 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is this different than Google making its own phones?

Android is free. Samsung, LG, et al aren't paying for the privilege of competing with the OS-builder. Microsoft also has much stricter rules re: customization for WinPhone, presumably as a response to the craptastic custom UIs LG, Motorola, and Samsung have been implementing for Android. In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing…

>Android is free

As I noted in another comment in this story, this is wrong. AOSP is open and free, but it is not very useful without access to the half million apps in the Google Play store, Maps, Navigation, Youtube, Google Now etc.

>In other words, OEM WinPhone users are already cornered into producing only the stock vanilla experience, and now they're competing against the platform owners themselves who are allowed to break whatever rules necessary to gain market share.

Perhaps in the future, but right now the Microsoft Surface runs the exact same software as the equivalent OEM devices.

>There is also another key difference to Nexus: the Nexus phones have never been heavily marketed, and even till now are the tools of developers and industry enthusiasts. I imagine if Google ever took the Nexus mass-market they'd see much more blowback from OEMs.

Except for advertising it on the most heavily trafficked site in the world?

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-57501546-94/googles-nexus-7...

Also, I don't see how the Nexus is not competing with the OEMs like you say. Where are the $199 Android 7" tablets from the OEMs? Why does the Galaxy Tab 7 cost $250?

What's common among the three tablets in that price range? Kindle Fire, Nexus 7 and a Nook ? They're all subsidized by the ecosystem, which Acer, Samsung, HTC, Lenovo, Viewsonic etc. cannot duplicate and compete with.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#15

Post by brackin »

They have their 8X and 8S devices which was a partnership with HTC to make custom phones designed for Windows Phone 8.

Google tried to make their own phone with the S, etc but at this point the model that has worked for them in terms of bringing a phone to market and getting carriers even with the Nexus 7 on board has been working with a manufacturer to partner on building a phone rather than building it themselves. When Google built the Nexus One they only sold it online and unsubsidised and it flopped.

The question is, can Microsoft bring a smartphone to market with good margins, carrier deals, etc. When Windows Phone hasn't had much of a response from carriers thus far. It's a different game to a tablet and their relationships with Nokia and HTC don't seem to signal that they want to build a surface phone.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#16

Post by hospadam »

After Microsoft's announcement of the Surface Tablet... people had to see this coming. I'm not debating the merits of doing this or not doing this... but if MS was willing to make their own tablet, surely they were willing to make their own phone.

What's interesting is the difference between the mobile and PC market. With PCs - there is no other (realistic) OS for OEM makers to use. I mean, they just have to keep using Windows. For mobile handset makers... they can (and might) move over to Android. Interesting gamble on MS's part.

Personally, I'm excited. I think MS has received the wakeup call that they need.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#17

Post by sabj »

The market problems faced by a phone and a tablet can be pretty distinct. If Microsoft is making a Windows Phone, I hope it serves to drive innovation and platform success, instead of just scaring away OEMs and cannibalizing what nascent platform there is.

If it's a foolhardy or hubristic attempt to grab imagined profits without consideration for carrier and other channel and customer obstacles, well... I'd regret the untimely / early demise of an innovative platform.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#18

Post by alanctgardner2 »

ericdykstra wrote: post #7
untog wrote: post #3

Don't get too excited just yet- they might just be making dev hardware for now. Nokia's "all in" on WP means that they have a great hardware partner for the time being, I'm not sure they'd want to jeopardise that just yet.

Seems like they already kicked Nokia in the face by giving HTC rights to call their 8X and 8S "Windows Phone" and basically saying it's their flagship at that event a few weeks ago. Wouldn't at all be surprised to see them make their own; they're already making their own tablet, so it's not like it's a big stretch.

It definitely benefits Nokia and MS to have more partners onboard with Windows Phone 8. I really liked the look of the 920, but I was worried it would never reach a critical mass of developer support with only Nokia building devices. If they could get one more major partner they could be a viable third platform, the way RIM was before they tanked. Unfortunately, Motorola is a no-go because of the Google acquisition, Samsung is enjoying great success with Android, and Sony is ... Sony. HTC already had a strong history of WP 6 devices before Android came along, and they're losing traction to Samsung in this space, so it makes sense that they would look to Microsoft for help.

Depending on how well it sells, MS might be solving the problem of finding a third partner by building a line of branded devices themselves.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#19

Post by mtgx »

objclxt wrote: post #13
jdminhbg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't pay Google for Android.

...you pay Microsoft though! Microsoft has per-device fees for Android arranged with most major manufacturers (including Samsung), in exchange for which they don't sue for patent infringement. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/07/06/motorola_samsung_pat... It has been suggested by some people (somewhat tongue in cheek) that in some cases the license fee for Windows Phone is less than the patent licenses for Android.

It's not. HTC only pays $5 per phone for example. HTC pays up to $45 for other royalties (unrelated to Android), though, so it's not a big deal.

Re: Microsoft has their own Windows Phone in the works

#20

Post by recoiledsnake »

cooldeal wrote: post #10
jdminhbg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't pay Google for Android.

Actually you do, unless you're Amazon. For access to the Google Play store, GMail, Maps, Navigation, Youtube etc. etc. Those are neither free nor Free. http://www.reghardware.com/2011/09/21/andy_pad_chief_admits_... It's very telling that most people do not know this. Google sent a C&D to the Cyanogen Mod folks for bundling these apps. If you install CM, you have to download the app store app from someone committing…

>It's very telling that most people do not know this.

Welcome to the HN info bubble.

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