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Maybe you’re not trying

usefulfictions.substack.com

11–20 of 196 posts

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#11

[flagged]

> particles that behave deterministically I'm not a physicist I'll admit, but this seems like a controversial statement.

Not unless you're talking about quantum indeterminacy, do you think that's where OP's agency comes from?

Or what about the Indian stalker's agency, should they "try harder" to reverse the genetics, pre-natal nutrition, toxin exposure, and gut biome that led them down the path of mental illness?

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#12

[flagged]

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion.

I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility, because in truth they use "no agency" as an excuse to explain their bad behavior.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#13

[flagged]

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion. I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility,…

Most people will accept a brain tumor as an excuse for bad behavior, but not low blood sugar.

I have successfully convinced people that hungry judges have less agency than full ones, though. (google hungry judge effect if you're curious).

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#14
post #6

This is an idea that philosophers have played with in countless varieties, perhaps the one closest to the author's wording is Jean-Paul Sartre's concept of bad faith. Faced with anxiety, guilt or overwhelming weight of responsibility, it's often easier to subconsciously sidestep the problem and pretend you don't have a choice, even if you do. This is not even a conscious decision, it's hard to be aware of our own qui…

When it’s adaptive (stepping around or over a pothole that you have neither the power nor incentive to fix), it’s what we do with 95%+ of all our input.

When it’s maladaptive (ignoring a serious red flag in a relationship, or not fixing that pinhole in the roof before it causes major damage in the house!), it leads to other serious problems and long term costs.

The biggest challenge in life is having the capacity to understand when it is going too far in the bad direction, and doing something about it before it tips over into overwhelm/overload.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#15
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was sort of my takeaway too. The OP got help from someone else and thought to herself “if only I’d tried harder I could’ve done this on my own”. That doesn’t seem like a healthy takeaway.

I didn’t take it that way at all. I took it as “I was blinded from the actual solution because my vision was artificially narrow due to my past experiences with this person.” They didn’t ask for help, their partner intervened for them with a completely different and more direct approach. I have a kid going thru this right now. It’s very disheartening and frustrating to see, because even with coaching and help, they d…

I guess I really don’t like this message because I am a disabled person. In the exercise that she describes where an instructor tells people to stand up from a position that they think they can’t stand up from, what if I actually can’t stand up? It might lead me to believe that perhaps I’m simply not trying enough.

You might think this contrived, but when people tell you over and over that you’re not trying hard enough because of things you can’t control, you internalize it.

To me — someone who has to ask for help — it seems like that she didn’t really notice that help was the thing that helped.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#16
post #6

This is an idea that philosophers have played with in countless varieties, perhaps the one closest to the author's wording is Jean-Paul Sartre's concept of bad faith. Faced with anxiety, guilt or overwhelming weight of responsibility, it's often easier to subconsciously sidestep the problem and pretend you don't have a choice, even if you do. This is not even a conscious decision, it's hard to be aware of our own qui…

This resonates with my experiences.

I once broke an ankle badly and were on crutches + stabilizer boot for three months. I could mostly only use one hand if standing (other was holding crutches).

It took me weeks to notice all the things I didn’t do any longer because it was painful and/or difficult. Like just making a cup of coffee in the morning (and I LOVE coffee!).

Activities were aborted before making any conscious decision to not do them. I recognized the same pattern in my father some years later when he was temporarily in a wheelchair.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#17
I think the "maybe you're not actually trying" framing is not very constructive. The author did try, making decisions and taking actions that seemed appropriate for her situation at the time. The problem was that because her attempts to solve the problem failed -- again and again and again -- she stopped trying. Which is a not-entirely-unreasonable thing to do.

I would frame it more like: just because you have tried and failed doesn't mean you can't succeed, even if you have failed again and again and again. Circumstances change. New solutions become available. New resources or new insights present themselves. Sometimes just doing nothing and letting time pass actually produces progress. But the only thing that guarantees failure is to give up altogether.

Re: Maybe you’re not trying

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, people are made up of particles that behave deterministically. Agency is an illusion. I like to slap people talking this to my face. Why? I was predetermined to slap them, the universe was set up that way. But I had only one occasion to really do this. The guy was thinking about this for two days. And when I say about this every proponent of "Agency is an illusion" then has some cop-out about responsibility,…

Most people will accept a brain tumor as an excuse for bad behavior, but not low blood sugar. I have successfully convinced people that hungry judges have less agency than full ones, though. (google hungry judge effect if you're curious).

The original study was flawed I’m afraid https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41091803
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