Earlier quoted context omitted.
With all due respect, you sound like someone who is just getting familiar with these tools. 100 more hours spent with AI coding and you will be much more productive. Coding with AI is a slightly different skill from coding, similar how managing software engineers is different from writing software.
Then, it's the job of someone else to use these tools, not developers
The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
11–20 of 127 posts
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#12Earlier quoted context omitted.
With all due respect, you sound like someone who is just getting familiar with these tools. 100 more hours spent with AI coding and you will be much more productive. Coding with AI is a slightly different skill from coding, similar how managing software engineers is different from writing software.
liszper: > most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today Also liszper: oh, you tried the current approach and don’t agree with me? Well you just don’t know what you are doing.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#13Earlier quoted context omitted.
With all due respect, you sound like someone who is just getting familiar with these tools. 100 more hours spent with AI coding and you will be much more productive. Coding with AI is a slightly different skill from coding, similar how managing software engineers is different from writing software.
liszper: > most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today Also liszper: oh, you tried the current approach and don’t agree with me? Well you just don’t know what you are doing.
For context before that I had ~15 years of experience coding the traditional way.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
liszper: > most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today Also liszper: oh, you tried the current approach and don’t agree with me? Well you just don’t know what you are doing.
Funnily enough the same kind of approach you get from Lisp advocates and the more annoying faction of Linux advocacy (which isn't as prevalent these days, it seems)
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#15most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today thanks for the article, it's a good one
They know that its a significant, but not revolutionary improvement.
If you supervise and manage your agents closely on well scoped (small) tasks they are pretty handy.
If you need a prototype and don't care about code quality or maintenance, they are great.
Anyone claiming 2x, 5x, 10x etc is absolutely kidding themselves for any non-trivial software.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then, it's the job of someone else to use these tools, not developers
I agree with your point. I think this is the reason why most developers still don't get it, because AI coding ultimately requires a "higher level" methodology.
This, this is you. This is the entire charade. It seems poetic somehow.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#17most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today thanks for the article, it's a good one
Impressively, it recognized the structure of the code and correctly identified it as a component of an audio codec library, and provided a reasonably complete description of many minute details specific to this codec and the work that the function was doing.
Rather less impressively, it decided to ignore my request and write a function that used C++ features throughout, such as type inference and lambdas, or should I say "lambdas" because it was actually just a function-defined-within-a-function that tried to access and mutate variables outside of its own function scope, like we were writing Javascript or something. Even apart from that, the code was rife with the sorts of warnings that even a default invocation of gcc would flag.
I can see why people would be wowed by this on its face. I wouldn't expect any average developer to have such a depth of knowledge and breadth of pattern-matching ability to be able to identify the specific task that this specific function in this specific audio codec was performing.
At the same time, this is clearly not a tool that's suitable for letting loose on a codebase without EXTREME supervision. This was a fresh session (no prior context to confuse it) using a tightly crafted prompt (a small, self-contained C program doing one thing) with a clear goal, and it still required constant handholding.
At the end of the day, I got the code working by editing it manually, but in an honest retrospective I would have to admit that the overall process actually didn't save me any time at all.
Ironically, despite how they're sold, these tools are infinitely better at going from code to English than going the other way around.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
liszper: > most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today Also liszper: oh, you tried the current approach and don’t agree with me? Well you just don’t know what you are doing.
Yes, exactly. Learning new things is hard. Personally it took me about 200 hours to get started, and since then ~2500 hours to get familiar with the advanced techniques, and now I'm very happy with the results, managing extremely large codebases with LLM in production. For context before that I had ~15 years of experience coding the traditional way.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#19most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today thanks for the article, it's a good one
I think most SWEs do have a good idea where I work. They know that its a significant, but not revolutionary improvement. If you supervise and manage your agents closely on well scoped (small) tasks they are pretty handy. If you need a prototype and don't care about code quality or maintenance, they are great. Anyone claiming 2x, 5x, 10x etc is absolutely kidding themselves for any non-trivial software.
Re: The quality of AI-assisted software depends on unit of work management
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
liszper: > most SWE folks still have no idea how big the difference is between the coding agents they tried a year ago and declared as useless and chatgpt 5 paired with Codex or Cursor today Also liszper: oh, you tried the current approach and don’t agree with me? Well you just don’t know what you are doing.
Yes, exactly. Learning new things is hard. Personally it took me about 200 hours to get started, and since then ~2500 hours to get familiar with the advanced techniques, and now I'm very happy with the results, managing extremely large codebases with LLM in production. For context before that I had ~15 years of experience coding the traditional way.